Didn’t know this was a hot take but America hasn’t provided tip worthy service for decades.
I would even wager that Gen Z and A would be blown away to see the level of service quality something like the boomer generation experienced.
What did you expect? They come from non tipping cultures. Where wait staff make livable wages. Not their fault we are incapable of paying people enough to live.
When in rome, do as the Romans do. You may not agree with it, but it’s how it works here and not doing it is taking advantage of a worker not the restaurant
you mean “when in a dystopian exploitative society, do as the dystopian exploitative societies do”? :)
They are from Rome though…
So, when in Nazi Germany… do as the Nazis do?
No it’s not. The only one taking advantage of workers is the restaurant owner.
If tipping is optional, why the hell would anyone “choose” to pay more? Imagine if I sold you a phone and said you can buy this phone for $500 or you can optionally pay an extra $100 and get literally exactly the same product. That’s tipping.
If tipping is mandatory, then make it clear beforehand that there is a mandatory fee and how much it is.
people like you, believing this kind of bullshit propaganda pushed by business owners lobby, are the reason why things are getting so bad in the US… next thing you’ll tell me unions are bad and affordable healthcare is some communist bullshit.
if the business is not paying their employees livable wage they should not work there and the business should go bankrupt. yes, there are many people who wouldn’t find any other job right now. and they can choose to suffer temporary unemployment now or accept to live indentured life forever.
history clearly shows that workers not accepting unbearable conditions ultimately leads to improvement for everyone. guilt-tripping customers into giving alm to employees instead of paying them actual wages is just postponing the inevitable.
Just auto include a 20% tip in every purchase, include that in the price, and don’t leave an option for tips. Done. Problem solved.
I despise 20%. I tolerated 10, maybe 15, but when it became 20 as the baseline with 30 now looming on the horizen, I am about to just say get bent.
The prices have gone up, so the tips have gone up. Why did they make the leap to 20%? Basically its like adding another person to the table.
Now I know people will say they should be paid a living wage, but from every server I know they absolutely do not want that. They want the tips, it pays better.
I don’t know what the solution is. The people who make real money make far beyond that, and there is no doubt the cost of living is through the roof. I cant fault someone for wanting to get a little more, but I am just not going to keep shelling out 20% more on top of dinner that already is 2 people for $150 before tip.
The only person I to 30% is my hair stylist, and that’s because she hasn’t raised my price in almost 20 years.
Which could be accomplished by simply raising prices by that amount and then paying the staff appropriately and not have this end run around complicating mess.
The staff would hate that. None of them want it. 20% is far more than what they would be paid even under “a living wage”. They know it, the restaurant knows it.
Sounds like a problem for someone that specializes in managing a restaurant.
Yeah, that’s what rising the prices and giving the staff the money is.
These kind of sane solutions to problems don’t belong on the internet. We come here to be irrationally angry over everything.
this
Oh right cause they come from civilized countries where people actually get payed. I get both sides but the system is the enemy, not the people.
Protecting the waiters and barkeepers from what? If they just had normal minimum wage rules, and service was included in the price, they would not need “protection” from a self-inflicted problem.
Note that if a worker fails to get to minimum wage through tips, they are owed minimum wage by the employer.
However, minimum wage is pretty crap.
Your point stands that compensation should be baked in of course, it is just that normal minimum wage does kick in if the tips fail.
And tips are normally reported as a percentage of gross sales. Technically you can report less, but thats a good way to get catch a tax audit, and if the total tips reported from the restaurant fall too low the whole place will be audited. If your actual tips are short for the day the standard practice is to report the normal percentage and eat the loss.
No, that is not normal practice. If you do that, you aren’t just eating the loss of what your employer should have paid you, you would be paying taxes on money you didn’t make.
I had a manager at a bar try to feed me that line after a very slow shift and I refused. Anyone pushing that as standard practice either has been direly mislead, or is screwing you over for the company’s profit.
Wow, for real? This is a good argument in support of abolishing tipped wages. Is there anything you can point to for that being standard practice so my source isn’t just an internet person? It’s clearly not going to be written down anywhere, so I’m looking for an article or written testimony and not finding anything
How is adding a required 20% gratuity to a bill at a restaurant not false advertising? The restaurant advertises the food costs X dollars, then you get your bill and it’s now 20% higher?
Exactly, it’s not only deceptive but also ignoring the fact that many visitors are likely not earning on par with people in New York and are making decisions about where to eat based on the advertised prices.
All these bars and restaurants talking about how busy they’ve been and have massively increased business during the world cup. They’re aware of the tipping problem yet still somehow can’t find the cash to cover the difference so that their staff get a normal wage.
They could share some of their revenue windfall with the wait staff. But instead they complain to news outlets and add an automatic 20% markup without prior notice to extract even more money from the visitors.
And it’s already higher from the tax! Lol
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But they only want to buy the food, not the gratitude.
From the perspective of the rest of the world, the US is really weird about prices.
America once again showing the world what a dystopian shit show it is. People are travelling to what they think is a developed country and so rightly assume all workers are paid a decent wage. Certainly European visitors would assume that. Highlights once again the need for a minimum wage and union support for workers.
Why would they assume that? America is famously a shitty country for workers. You’d have to know nothing about the country you’re visiting to not know that
Why do North Americans tip when they go to Europe?
Because they were too stupid to check the local customs before the trip. And it shows, not only with the tipping, but with a lot of problems they cause.
So its safe to say that they assumed…which is what MnemonicBump is vilifying the whole world for doing in the US.
Literally what everyone else said, we’re an uneducated shithole. Europeans should know that. I’m not villifying the rest of the world, I’m holding them to a higher standard, because once again (and I cannot emphasize this enough), the U.S. is a bad place to be. Listen to your travel advisories, they’re actually minimalizing how bad it is
Because we’re an uneducated shithole, obviously 😝
restaurants are fighting back
Unless it’s by raising their prices by 15-20% and paying their employees a living wage, it ain’t gonna work. Tipping is moronic.
They’ll raise their prices and give the employees nothing, just wait and see.
That’s essentially what they’re doing, but with a surcharge rather than just raising their menu because we love adding on tax and fees here in the US
That’s also a surefire way to piss everyone off! It’s hilarious to see the extent that restaurants will go to keep the menu price low.
I mean, that’s basically what airlines did when they started charging $20 for checked baggage so they could get the price Expedia shows to be as low as possible.
I think you mean cabin bag
Fortunately the EU is revoking that
Base price needs to be with a cabin bag + personal item. Then they can make a discount if one decides not to take the cabin bag but at least the comparison includes it from the start
As an American I’ve never heard the term cabin bag before. But I’m sure they’ll find a way to charge me extra for it.
It’s a bad deal that only policy could really fix at this point.
If you’re the only store with real menu prices then customers just get price shocked at what they’re actually going to be paying when they can go next door to another restaurant that doesn’t tell you the full price up front. Customers would be upset at a mid $18 burger, but at fine with a mid $16 burger + $2 tip.
Imo, the problems stem from the forced rat race of no one having enough money excluding the rich. Prices being high wouldn’t matter if people got paid more, but cause we’re not getting paid more, the companies that target the general population just make everything into cheap knockoff crap to still turn the same or better profit margins.
Policy created the problem.
Hang on.
So you’re fine if restaurants raise their prices 20%,
But not fine simply doing the math to add that 20% yourself?
What is the real difference there? The price would then be the same, you’d just get a lower “advertised” price. Functionally there is no difference tbh, besides the marketing of saying the burger is $9.99 instead of the $11.98 you’d pay with a 20% tip.
So now the menu says “burger, $11.99” but you don’t tip, ok, so, and? What really is the functional difference here? You’re paying the same price either way, the literal only difference is you have to do the math yourself or be an absolute prick for a 20% discount because fuck that server. Is it just hatred of math?
So you’re fine if restaurants raise their prices 20%,
But not fine simply doing the math to add that 20% yourself?
Yes, exactly.
What is the real difference there?
Well…
The price would then be the same, you’d just get a lower “advertised” price.
It’s this. It’s misleading advertising. And this kind of misleading advertising is proven to get people to spend more money, which is exactly why restaurants do it.
Same thing with not including tax in the advertised price. It’s all about screwing over the customer. Nothing else.
EDIT: I’m sorry people are being so hard on you. I’m not here to insult you and downvote you for having an opinion I dislike, lol
You’re cool lmao, those others are selfish pricks without a real argument who want a discount. They’re one step off from the people who make fake complaints to get free food but for some reason don’t want to return the “mistake” (it wasn’t a mistake, they want free food, they think I can’t remember 30 whole minutes ago but turns out I’m not a goldfish). You actually had something to add, not only is that “fine” but I like it!
Now, I do actually agree with you, but also functionally everyone here knows “burger $9.99” includes neither tax nor tip, so it is actually $9.99+10%tax+20%tip.
I’m not saying I’d be mad if we changed the menus to reflect those additional charges, but as it stands we don’t and as evidenced by this thread, whether the world agrees or not they know that is the custom. As such claims of false advertising are tenuous at best, you knew going in, and we know you knew, being a gaijin/n’wah is no excuse (at least after let’s say two days and two purchases).
For instance, though I’ve never been I know tipping is seen as rude in Japan, as such if I ever did get to visit (too poor, and that’s another thing if you can afford to travel like that you’re doing better than EVERY server so help them out like you would the homeless, they’re close enough to homeless as is), I wouldn’t be attempting to shove my American custom of tipping the workers onto them. Literally “same but reverse” here.
You’re right, it is in a sense “false advertising,” but still there’s not really a functional difference since everyone knows (or once they learn upon their first purchase if they didn’t, I suppose).
Idk how EU countries handle sales tax though, is it actually included on the sticker price like they do in New Hampshire, or should they be more used to this concept than they are letting on?
I don’t like doing pointless things myself, especially when other nations have solved the problem.
Mmhmm, so you admit there’s functionally no difference other than having to do math and have no argument, but still refuse to admit I’m right so you’re gonna pull the “other nations” card and shut down?
Well guess what, “you’re” (those visiting I mean, I don’t have an airtag in your pocket) in this nation so get used to how it works here loser, I guess. You don’t see me going to Japan and shoving tips in their server’s pockets, because tipping is disrespectful there and despite it being a cultural difference between us I’m not too fucking stupid to adjust.
The funniest part to me is I’m the one with math anxiety (it’s real), and I’m still capable of doing this…
OHHHH you want a 20% discount but also want to feel morally superior to the server you stiffed to get that discount, after you’ve paid the owner their profits to perpetuate the system you claim to hate. Figures.
Because tipping is inherently biased (there’s plenty of data that shows that it’s unfair af) plus the whole history of why it exists (read it up).
Pay your workers a living wage and get rid of the excessive tipping culture you have there. It’s also bleeding into our side of the pond
Since you are already calling people loser it tells me everything I need to know about you.
Cheers
Right, sure.
But the premise is that if everyone tipped 20% they’d have a livable wage, and instead of that they should just charge 20% more, so your $9.99+20% burger is now just $11.98. What is the difference for you?
The server experiences a difference, pricks who don’t tip no longer can’t, it’s built into the price, great. But the price of your bill being 20% more and that 20% going to them is functionally no different than if the price of your bill was 20% less and you tipped that 20%, the literal only differences are
A) it’s no longer a choice, it is now compulsory (good imo, fuck you non-tippers, if they make you do it through raising prices all the better for me)
B) you no longer have to do the math if you would have tipped. (Great, as a math anxiety haver that’s cool too. That said I have a calculator and it’s a low pressure environment, even ol’ math anxiety me isn’t that much of a pussy.)
I’m fine with either of those.
But really, is that it? Is that the only difference, you don’t want to do the math yourself? Why isn’t the tax the same, why aren’t you complaining that also isn’t included in the price?
This is dumb.
No u.
If you’d like to elaborate, I can too. For now that’s all the response you get.
Your original rebuttal is dumb. Raise the prices, pay employees, eliminate tipping.
Ok, you raise the price from $9.99 to $11.98 and no tips.
Cool. And?
What has functionally changed other than you having to do math?
And does this apply to sales tax, or does it only apply for tips? Why are you not also complaining that sales tax (dependant on state but for convo’s sake lets say 10%) isn’t included on the menu price as well? The government can require math but not your server? Seems arbitrary imo.
The heart of the matter is that the only one screwed by not tipping is the poor server, the boss gets his from the menu price so you’re still helping perpetuate the system if you patronize those establishments regardless of tipping or not, but really, other than making you pull out your phone calc what is the physical difference between paying “$9.99+20%” and “$11.98,” if not “just doing a little basic math?”
Jesus man, your argument is that employers should be allowed to not fairly compensate their employees. Just shut the fuck up.
Well no, my argument is that whether the 20% is included in the bill or you have to do math you’re still paying the same price so what is the actual functional difference besides
A) making you do math
And
B) giving you the choice to be a prick for a 20% discount at the worker’s expense.
I’ve so far not heard any other differences but I have heard a lot of excuses for not ponying up that supposedly fine 20%.
And still nobody has answered why 10% for taxes not included is fine but 20% for tip not included is over the line.
It’s sounding like you’re all a bunch of selfish smegheads to me, honestly.
It’s not my fucking job to make sure your workers are paid appropriately. I came here for a fucking steak and some freedom fries. I paid for my fucking food and I just want to eat it in peace. Stop turning your problems into my problems.
But here’s the thing, it ain’t the owners’ problem either. They’re winning. The whole reason they do this is to externalize labor costs and do ad hoc market segmentation, except it’s based on customers kinda being dicks. When you don’t tip in the US, you have sided with the owners and have said to the server, “you are worth minimum wage.”
Agitate the rest of the day. Tip at mealtime.
To be fair, the workers dont want the livable wage either. 20% tip is much better than what they would get paid.
Or, don’t eat places that don’t pay their workers
I mean, that’s a better choice than “fuck my waiter, specifically and today, while not affecting his bosses’ bottom line at all.”
Yep. Continuing to patronize that establishment, whether or not you tip, perpetuates tipping culture.
Yes. Those are your choices. Either
A) don’t eat places that don’t pay their workers
Or
B) Tip at the place you chose to go to that relies on tips.
It’s literally that simple.
Wrong
The owners are the bad actors here. They enjoy increased margins in an environment where additional salary top ups are somehow the customer’s problem.
Pay your waitstaff you cheap fucks
The owners are the bad actors but the only person getting screwed when you don’t tip is the server.
Don’t want to tip, don’t eat out. It’s pretty simple.
If the job didn’t come with the tip, they wouldn’t be able to hire. Not tipping is the actual solution.
No, not going is the solution. By patronizing a business that runs of tips, you are paying the business and perpetuating the system whether you tip or not, the only person you hurt by not tipping is the worker.
“Then they can find another job,” and you can find another restaurant, but you didn’t, you chose to go to the one that relies on tips and specifically chose fuck over the poor employee hoping to afford rent and food this month while paying the boss full price so he makes a profit, and telling the employee that you didn’t pay him because his boss is a dick (as if he didn’t fucking know that). Ok fine the worker moves to a warehouse gig, and the restaurant hires the application at the top of the stack and exploits them on your dollar until they too get fed up, rinse and repeat because someone always needs something quick to stave off homelessness and you can’t figure out how to heat up your own fucking chickey nuggies.
If people only went to restaurants that didn’t rely on tips in the US there would be no restaurants whatsoever and all workers would be out of a job.
If people go to the restaurant and don’t tip at some point the waiter can say to their boss that they either get a living wage or they can go to the restaurant thst doesn’t rely on tips (since from your comment they are so common).
From my European POV don’t trick me with fake prices. If the item I’m buying is presented to me with the cost of X then that’s what you should expect and demand of me. Tipping is extra, voluntary and based on above average service.
Shit when I was there last time I got asked for a tip for asking for an item that was off the shelf. It wasn’t even cooked or prepared in any way and it wasn’t even supposed to be consumed in that café. I wasn’t going to pay 20% on an expensive bag of coffee just because some waiter fetched it literally from the shelf behind him. It’s insane
Besides basically everything else runs off tips so it works. Or do you tip your landlord with the rent??
If people only went to restaurants that didn’t rely on tips in the US there would be no restaurants whatsoever and all workers would be out of a job.
But you’re fine exploiting those workers who need that job and not tipping? Honestly fuck you for that. I’d rather be out of a job than work for you for free.
If people go to the restaurant and don’t tip at some point the waiter can say to their boss that they either get a living wage or they can go to the restaurant thst doesn’t rely on tips (since from your comment they are so common).
They can. And then the boss goes to the stack of applications from other people who really don’t want to become homeless so they’ll take whatever job they can get, hires the first one to show up, and within an hour the cycle continues.
From my European POV don’t trick me with fake prices. If the item I’m buying is presented to me with the cost of X then that’s what you should expect and demand of me. Tipping is extra, voluntary and based on above average service.
And why then have I not heard one complaint about sales tax, which is also not included on the menu? Fuck the worker but I’ll pay his boss and the government? And how again is that helping the worker? Honestly if you want to pinch pennies fine but don’t pretend you’re doing anyone but yourself a favor.
Shit when I was there last time I got asked for a tip for asking for an item that was off the shelf. It wasn’t even cooked or prepared in any way and it wasn’t even supposed to be consumed in that café. I wasn’t going to pay 20% on an expensive bag of coffee just because some waiter fetched it literally from the shelf behind him. It’s insane
Fair enough, I wouldn’t have tipped then either, and it can be difficult to understand when it is necessary VS when some dumb tablet at a store asks but it isn’t (that is new since covid tbf).
Basically at any sit down restaurant with servers, or delivery drivers, or bartenders, you need to tip or they’re serving you for free while their exploiter gets paid. As for counter service like you mention, it’s basically only baristas (coffee servers), other counter service workers get paid and you can safely ignore the tablet. I gotta admit that part is probably the hardest part to figure out especially for someone not used to it.
Besides basically everything else runs off tips so it works. Or do you tip your landlord with the rent??
I’ll assume you mean “doesn’t run off tips” but that’s the thing, my landlord isn’t dependant on tips. My servers however are and I know this, so as the system stands today the only people hurt by the lack of tips are those who do indeed rely on them, not their boss, not their bosses landlord, just them. I guess if you want to hurt the poor servers then fine, but impo that’s a dick move. You have to change the system first though before you can stop tipping the workers, again unless you’re fine helping exploit them that is.
Boycotting the restaraunt is the actual solution.
Not tipping just makes you an asshole.
All restaurants in the US require tipping. You’ll have to boycott all of them, and that won’t send a message about tipping. You would need the majority of people to still go to restaurants and not tip to send the message and that’s never going to happen because people have been brainwashed to think their value as a human being requires generous tipping. Comments like “if you don’t tip you’re an asshole” means the system is working as intended and will never change.
Not true. There’s a restaraunt in my town (and not even a very large town!) that pays all staff the same (relatively decent) wage and splits any tips they do happen to get equally among all staff. Obviously people will still tip, because that’s the culture here, but if you didn’t tip it’s not like the staff won’t be paid at all.
Places like that are rare but they’re out there, and the principled thing to do would be to spend your money with establishments that are doing their best to be part of the solution.
Fuck those waiters I guess, right?
Either you think the situation is okay or you don’t and shouldn’t enable it through your behavior. Simple as. That being said, I usually tip (and well) from shear pressure. I think the whole vibe is gross though.
The situation sucks, but until there’s a mass movement to stop it, not tipping only hurts the people at the bottom.
If you don’t want to enable it the answer is to not eat out, not to screw over the waitstaff who are counting on it to make rent.
I wish this exposed tipping culture for what it is, but America is so deep in capitalism that you’ll hear more complaints against this.
It’s so fucking stupid
Just raise the prices by 20% and also pay the staff 20% more.
But fuck workers’ rights and living wages, right?
They wouldn’t need to raise prices that much.
During the Obamacare debate the Papa John’s CEO was upset that he would have to raise pizza prices a few cents to pay for the health insurance his workers need. Wealthy people are psychopaths.
For some reason I thought I remembered seeing an article about Papa John dying. Apparently I was mistaken.
Bummer…
But then what is the difference? Literally just “not doing math?”
If burger $9.99 + 20% tip = $11.98, and you’re fine with paying that $11.98, why does it make a difference if the menu says “$11.98” or you do the math yourself? Are you also mad tax (in most states) isn’t included on the sticker price of retail goods, or are you fine doing your own math when it comes to tipping the government?
the difference is false advertising. being able to know prices upfront and being able to make a fair decision on where to eat.
it is so weird this is not common sense.
And does that apply to taxes, which also aren’t included in the menu price? Why am I supposed to take the brunt of this issue as a poor worker and not my boss or government? Fuck me for not wanting to be homeless? Why doesn’t ONE comment in this thread besides mine mention taxes though they follow the exact same logic?
Is it because you want to pinch pennies, and you can choose to not tip but have to pay tax, and deep down you know you’re only fucking over the employee but have to sanitize your conscience so you can save 20% on your bill?
But then what do the owners get?
/s
Tipping is fucking stupid but it is the current system for how US waiters earn a living. So to fuck them over and not tip does nothing to change the system and only leaves them overworked with no money.
Think materially and tip your servers. Believe me they would like it to change too. It isn’t them that keeps the system in place. Big business has the money to lobby against our human and material needs.
If we all participated in a “tip strike” and stopped leaving tips, the front of the house staff that relies on it would quit. Eventually the restaurant owners would have to do something about it.
Unfortunately, it seems like the owners would rather add a gratuity fee than rise prices on the menu and pay a decent wage.
One can hope though that eventually, tipping would go away. Sorry bar tenders and servers. Some of you may struggle but it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make meme
Servers don’t want the system to change as they make more money with tips than they would from a “livable wage”
Former euro server here. Got a livable wage plus tips. Not the mandated kind, just the extras people would leave. That would net me 5 euros per hour above my livable wage.
Yeah definitely not arguing against earning a livable wage via being paid that livable wage by the employer. That should be the system. But sadly that isn’t the system and not paying a tip in the states isn’t going to do anything to change the system.
For example, the unhoused crisis is caused by the same ultra rich classes that keep tipping around. But I’m not going to pretend that the unhoused aren’t people with real immediate needs. I will give them money when I can. I will vote and push for change as well. Material concerns of the moment are more important to me than strict idealism.
Yeah I’m absolutely on board and quite in favor of what you argue. The institutionalized out sourcing of wages is absurd.
I can’t be against tipping as a concept, as I live in a place where it works, but the us system irks me.
But we can and should be more social. Helping oneself instead of borrowing the selfishness of the upper class.
Y’all living privileged idealogue navel-gazed lives can do what you want I guess. We here in the working class are tired, overworked, and are trying to survive the day.
You’re more frustrated at people that don’t leave tips over the fact you are seen as less than a person by the owners that pay a pitiful wage. Look to the people that came before you, look up Mario Savio.
The non-tippers are complicit, they patronize my job and give the owner their money, but don’t think I’m deserving of any either as evidenced by them not tipping. My boss doesn’t give a shit whether I’m tipped or not, and if I leave over it he’ll have my replacement within the hour and the system continues.
Sure, be an ideologue all you want and “tipping is wrong!” So don’t come into my store. That’s the only way to make my boss feel it instead of me, if you come in, give him $20 and give me the finger for wasting time on you, yes, of course I’m mad at both of you.
So if nobody went to your store because they don’t want to tip the restaurant would close and you’d be fired.
You are being exploited by your boss. The people tipping you are subsidizing that exploitation. You want to be pissed, go be pissed at your boss or find another job.
As another user mentioned plenty of wait staff are in favour of tipping so also because of that it doesn’t change
And it’s a descriminative and unfair system. Theres plenty of data on it.
Yes. People can do what they want. Tips are optional, and are for good service…not to subsidize owners. If you can’t afford to work in a restaurant, find something else to do for a living.
Just go eat at McDonalds then.
I haven’t eaten at a McDonald’s since the 90s. I refuse to support that corporation.
I just think that it’s on owners to pay their staff a living wage, or for staff to realize they’re not going to be able to make a decent living and move on to something where they can. If an owner can’t make that work, the business wasn’t strong enough to survive anyways.
I lived in Australia for a few years and think their system is far better. The only way our system is going to change is for people to reject it.
This is generally false. Most waiters would see more consistent income with fewer instances of subjective nonsense like ideologues who don’t believe they have to follow the basic cultural rules of the place in which they visit. There is an exceptional subset of waiters that would make less for sure but they are in a minority.
I put livable wage in quotation marks because it wouldn’t actually be a livable wage. The pay would likely be 1-2x minimum wage which is still not livable in most places
People most definitely want to be paid by their employer rather than tips. This isn’t a bottom up movement keeping tipping in place. It is ultra rich people invested in the restaurant industry that keep it around. The same people that use the National Restaurant Association to effectively lobby against minimum wage hikes to meet that “livable wage” and pro-unionization regulation.
Not once you consider healthcare, taxes, and social security.
The presence of a livable wage doesn’t affect any of those though?
The employer still pays FICA on tipped revenue, and paying for insurance has nothing to do with their wage
Nope. It’s not my obligation to pay their wages directly. They can accept no tip, they can lobby for a living wage from their employer, or they can find a different job. I am okay with all of the above.
The only way change happens is through action, not just crying about it. If you want change, stop tipping.
ah yes, put the onus on the people just trying to survive while still patronizing the restaurant that the owner continues to make profits on.
If you feel this strongly, you should boycott all restaurants that make their servers rely on tips.
Yet still the only one hurt is the worker, the boss got theirs when you paid for your meal.
“The worker can leave if they don’t like serving me for free while worrying about homelessness” yeah, and you could cook at home or go to a restaurant that doesn’t use the tipping model (they exist), yet you chose to go somewhere that the worker relies on tips and enjoy in the exploitation with the owner, you are an essential part in keeping the business running the way it does. On top of that you exploit them further yourself by knowing full well how it works and who you’re really hurting and justifying it in your selfish mind so you can pinch pennies. Even if the worker does quit the owner just pulls the top application off the stack and gives them a call, there’s a revolving door of people willing to do whatever they have to to avoid becoming homeless. Most often that worker then just cycles to another restaurant an continues the cycle themselves as they can get another waitstaff job easier than anything else.
Not only are you literally changing nothing, you’re actively participating in the exploitation you claim to be against, you’re not the business owner, no, but without you his exploitation wouldn’t work.
Tbf, while the system exists as it does, not tipping the workers only hurts the workers you supposedly support, their employers don’t care because they got theirs already and there’s a revolving door of people who need work bad enough when the worker gets fed up.
If you actually wanted to help those workers you’d have to entirely not support businesses that use the tipping model by “not going there” and only go to ones that don’t. Or you could go, but while there try and unionize servers, I suppose. But then when the workers strike for the thing you want you’ll still have to not cross the picket line so it’s the same in the end just more effective.
I practice what I preach btw, I only go to restaurants that don’t run off tips for the most part, and I tip when I do happen end up at one of those places. Sometimes I’ll tip even at places that don’t really “run off tips” but I want to help out a bit, like my local taco truck, I love them so much and don’t mind throwing them an extra $2 to show my appreciation, they’re not rich people it’s just a family trying to get by, with great prices no less.
To summarize: I don’t pass out info on unionizing, but I do support non-tipping businesses on average and still don’t fuck the workers over in a misguided attempt to hurt their boss when I do end up at a tipping place.
This is it 100%.
I’m shocked at the amount of responses here willing to make the workers suffer so that they can continue getting their food/drinks and supporting the owners taking advantage of the system.
Tipping does not lead to better service. Arguably worse, They want you out asap to get the next tipper in the seat.
Also, can’t see why someone should pay a waiter more for bringing 5 steaks an 5 champagnes instead of 5 burgers and 5 soda’s. Kind of the same job and effort.
I remember when I spent time in the US, tipping was the absolute worst part of the experience.
If I was with a big group going to a restaurant we would have a server constantly checking in with us, chatting and telling stories, getting us deals and freebies. When I would go out alone I would get ignored. If I dressed down I would be treated worse than if I was dressed up. One time I even waited an hour for a table before walking out as larger groups got seated ahead of me. How people are treated is based on how much money they think you’ll hand over.
Everything about tipping is greed and it’s gross.
And then there’s also the fact that people that work less busy times or times where the people visiting the restaurant are less wealthy earn less per hour than their counter parts
Or how men or people of colour also earn less in tips.
Or how many times they aren’t even shared with back of the house staff.
It’s just a stupid system overall
Tipping does not lead to better service.
Spoken like someone who’s never experienced a French waiter.
You people are so obsessed with attention and false happiness. The server doesn’t care about you they have to beg and grind to get to minimum wage. It’s one step above indentured servitude.
As a server: I literally do care though. I love my regulars and it makes my day when they come in.
I’d still care just as much if I got paid a living wage, but like, don’t say we don’t care when many of us absolutely do.
Lol, you don’t know shit about me.
I definitely think we should pay a living wage to everyone and I’m working to pass that in my city & county, but that’s doesn’t mean I’m in denial about the faux friendliness that results from tipping culture or that the staff are more attentive (it’s much less common for staff to ask if you want more drinks without you having to get their attention in countries without tips than those with)
In the US I hated how the waiters were always bothering me with fake smiles “everything ok sir? do you need something?” while I’ve got my mouth full of food and no interest in conversation. I’ll call if I need something, thank you.
I like living in a society of peers, I don’t need to feel “served”.
Oh I completely agree, I just think it’s ridiculous to pretend tipping doesn’t impact service.
What I was trying to convey is that it has an adverse effect on service in my opinion.
You’re showing your usian bias, of course its less likely that a server elsewhere in the world is going to interrupt your meal. That doesn’t mean they won’t be available when you need them. The rest of the world doesn’t expect or what someone interrupting their experience every 5 minutes, but we know we can signal them when we need something.
It sounds like you want to improve the working day for your own people, but you need to recognise that what you are aiming for is already well below the standard.
French waiters are honest, which I prefer.
Some of the best service I received was in Hong Kong, it was efficient and moderately rude
Maybe better is not the right term but tipping definitely results in politer and usually faster service, there is no point in pretending it doesn’t have an impact.
And I’m against tipping culture, I’m just not in denial that it has an impact.
Best service I received was in Japan without tipping
if I remember well, in Japan tipping is easily seen as an insult
It absolutely is an insult. They see it as “you don’t think i work for someone who pays me enough, but I do.”
Do you tip before you get your meal? If not then they are just working to get you through faster, because a standard 15% every 30 min is better than hoping for 20% for a longer customer.
There are plenty of ways to get faster table turn that don’t involve rushing your customers, like making sure the food is prepared quickly and accurately, or taking payment earlier so that customers can leave whenever they would like.
Obviously, yes, more tips makes more money than less-but-slightly higher tips, but a good server will manage to achieve both high quality and efficient service.
But yeah, everyone needs to make a livable wage, and tipping culture only helps the owning class.
Lol
Look, I worked in restaurants for half of my adult life and even though the system is fucked for tips it’s not like the wait staff has a say in the matter so punishing them by not tipping is completely pointless. That being said, I’m pretty sure 90% of wait staff agree with you about tipping but are unfortunately stuck in the system just like the rest of us. But even when considering all of that it’s absolutely insane that people are expected to tip when it costs $100+ just to go out to eat with a few friends.
Basically what I’m saying is that it’s generally a more complicated issue than it looks from the outside, but the long story short is that the staff are the ones getting fucked over by everyone else and it doesn’t make sense to punish them. It’s infinitely more helpful to leave a negative review than it is to not tip the wait staff. If you do that it actually brings attention to the issue and hurts the business instead of just punishing someone for trying to do their job.
90% of waitstaff (if not more than that) LOVE tipping culture because they get more money than they’d ever be making hourly by serving without tips.
(Talking about servers in places with tipping culture, of course)
Yeah, when business is good. But as soon as it’s not the tune changes immediately.
Tip is a con
As far as tipping, Reynolds understands why some visitors aren’t leaving American-sized gratuities.
“They’ve already spent a lot of money to be here in the first place,” he said. “The tipping, I’m not too fussed about it.”
His advice? Embrace the local customs.
“I think if you do come here, you should just engage in the culture because I think you’ll have a better time.”
In what way tipping makes my stay better? American are so far up their ass they made tipping their culture. If you just include it into the price and then pay the waiter/waitress like human being then there won’t be any confusion.
Imagine Americans going to other countries and complaining that they don’t get free refills or free water and saying stuff like “if you’d just increase the cost of everything, you could afford to offer free refills and free water”
Like, I agree, tipping culture sucks and I wish it wasn’t the norm in America but IT IS and to just go there and pretend like they should change overnight for tourists is such a wild take.
Getting pissed at tourist because you lie and say something is not mandatory when it actually is such a fun hyperbole to read. Especially since they are not there to visit the country. They couldn’t care less about culture of the US. They are there to watch football (yah, not soccer) and it just so happens the world cup is there lmao. I hate football and I’m so glad I don’t feel the need to go to such a worker exploiting country…
The bosses who make their money regardless and exploit the worker say it isn’t mandatory, the workers who are actually the ones affected by lack of tips say it is mandatory, wanna guess why the discrepancy exists? Because the boss makes their money regardless and you only harm the poor worker by not tipping, that’s why. The workers couldn’t care less about your dumb fucking game, pay me or don’t come in, fuck my boss, and fuck your reasoning for being in the country, you are so act accordingly.
(The royal you, I read your comment lol)
And “soccer” was originally British slang for “association football,” gridiron football outpaced it in popularity and won the title “football” over association or rugby football. Big ol’ “who cares” on that one.
Of course the water is free. And in many places you can get a free refill of coffee (Sweden).
