Tipping is fucking stupid but it is the current system for how US waiters earn a living. So to fuck them over and not tip does nothing to change the system and only leaves them overworked with no money.
Think materially and tip your servers. Believe me they would like it to change too. It isn’t them that keeps the system in place. Big business has the money to lobby against our human and material needs.
Former euro server here. Got a livable wage plus tips. Not the mandated kind, just the extras people would leave. That would net me 5 euros per hour above my livable wage.
Yeah definitely not arguing against earning a livable wage via being paid that livable wage by the employer. That should be the system. But sadly that isn’t the system and not paying a tip in the states isn’t going to do anything to change the system.
For example, the unhoused crisis is caused by the same ultra rich classes that keep tipping around. But I’m not going to pretend that the unhoused aren’t people with real immediate needs. I will give them money when I can. I will vote and push for change as well. Material concerns of the moment are more important to me than strict idealism.
Y’all living privileged idealogue navel-gazed lives can do what you want I guess. We here in the working class are tired, overworked, and are trying to survive the day.
You’re more frustrated at people that don’t leave tips over the fact you are seen as less than a person by the owners that pay a pitiful wage. Look to the people that came before you, look up Mario Savio.
The non-tippers are complicit, they patronize my job and give the owner their money, but don’t think I’m deserving of any either as evidenced by them not tipping. My boss doesn’t give a shit whether I’m tipped or not, and if I leave over it he’ll have my replacement within the hour and the system continues.
Sure, be an ideologue all you want and “tipping is wrong!” So don’t come into my store. That’s the only way to make my boss feel it instead of me, if you come in, give him $20 and give me the finger for wasting time on you, yes, of course I’m mad at both of you.
So if nobody went to your store because they don’t want to tip the restaurant would close and you’d be fired.
You are being exploited by your boss. The people tipping you are subsidizing that exploitation. You want to be pissed, go be pissed at your boss or find another job.
As another user mentioned plenty of wait staff are in favour of tipping so also because of that it doesn’t change
And it’s a descriminative and unfair system. Theres plenty of data on it.
Yes. People can do what they want. Tips are optional, and are for good service…not to subsidize owners. If you can’t afford to work in a restaurant, find something else to do for a living.
I haven’t eaten at a McDonald’s since the 90s. I refuse to support that corporation.
I just think that it’s on owners to pay their staff a living wage, or for staff to realize they’re not going to be able to make a decent living and move on to something where they can. If an owner can’t make that work, the business wasn’t strong enough to survive anyways.
I lived in Australia for a few years and think their system is far better. The only way our system is going to change is for people to reject it.
The business keeps going, it finds another hungry, almost homeless person to exploit, and keeps making profit because people like you keep going. Put your money where your mouth is and do not patronize these places or you ARE part of the problem. The only way our system changes is if THE CUSTOMER rejects it, victim blaming the workers is frankly kinda lame.
staff to realize they’re not going to be able to make a decent living and move on to something where they can
That’s the victim blame-y part, it’s very “go back to your country if you don’t like it here” but “meant well,” however misguided.
Tipping like that definitely is fair, it means the worker at least is taken care of, but it does still buy into the system and perpetuate it (though it is much better than those that go and don’t tip!!) If you were serious about changing the system you’d still have to stop going at all (which would hurt the workers, but would also hurt the owners as opposed to the entitled ones who go and don’t tip, who only hurt the workers.)
Personally imo you’re fine, as long as you either “don’t go there” or “do tip if needed,” but the truth remains that the only,only way to change the overall system starts with the customers rejecting it.
Wait you take a moral stand against McDonald’s but are willing to stiff workers at restaurants and support owners that are taking advantage of them? This take makes no sense.
This is generally false. Most waiters would see more consistent income with fewer instances of subjective nonsense like ideologues who don’t believe they have to follow the basic cultural rules of the place in which they visit. There is an exceptional subset of waiters that would make less for sure but they are in a minority.
I put livable wage in quotation marks because it wouldn’t actually be a livable wage. The pay would likely be 1-2x minimum wage which is still not livable in most places
People most definitely want to be paid by their employer rather than tips. This isn’t a bottom up movement keeping tipping in place. It is ultra rich people invested in the restaurant industry that keep it around. The same people that use the National Restaurant Association to effectively lobby against minimum wage hikes to meet that “livable wage” and pro-unionization regulation.
Nope. It’s not my obligation to pay their wages directly. They can accept no tip, they can lobby for a living wage from their employer, or they can find a different job. I am okay with all of the above.
The only way change happens is through action, not just crying about it. If you want change, stop tipping.
Yet still the only one hurt is the worker, the boss got theirs when you paid for your meal.
“The worker can leave if they don’t like serving me for free while worrying about homelessness” yeah, and you could cook at home or go to a restaurant that doesn’t use the tipping model (they exist), yet you chose to go somewhere that the worker relies on tips and enjoy in the exploitation with the owner, you are an essential part in keeping the business running the way it does. On top of that you exploit them further yourself by knowing full well how it works and who you’re really hurting and justifying it in your selfish mind so you can pinch pennies. Even if the worker does quit the owner just pulls the top application off the stack and gives them a call, there’s a revolving door of people willing to do whatever they have to to avoid becoming homeless. Most often that worker then just cycles to another restaurant an continues the cycle themselves as they can get another waitstaff job easier than anything else.
Not only are you literally changing nothing, you’re actively participating in the exploitation you claim to be against, you’re not the business owner, no, but without you his exploitation wouldn’t work.
Tipping is fucking stupid but it is the current system for how US waiters earn a living. So to fuck them over and not tip does nothing to change the system and only leaves them overworked with no money.
Think materially and tip your servers. Believe me they would like it to change too. It isn’t them that keeps the system in place. Big business has the money to lobby against our human and material needs.
Servers don’t want the system to change as they make more money with tips than they would from a “livable wage”
Former euro server here. Got a livable wage plus tips. Not the mandated kind, just the extras people would leave. That would net me 5 euros per hour above my livable wage.
Yeah definitely not arguing against earning a livable wage via being paid that livable wage by the employer. That should be the system. But sadly that isn’t the system and not paying a tip in the states isn’t going to do anything to change the system.
For example, the unhoused crisis is caused by the same ultra rich classes that keep tipping around. But I’m not going to pretend that the unhoused aren’t people with real immediate needs. I will give them money when I can. I will vote and push for change as well. Material concerns of the moment are more important to me than strict idealism.
Yeah I’m absolutely on board and quite in favor of what you argue. The institutionalized out sourcing of wages is absurd.
I can’t be against tipping as a concept, as I live in a place where it works, but the us system irks me.
But we can and should be more social. Helping oneself instead of borrowing the selfishness of the upper class.
Y’all living privileged idealogue navel-gazed lives can do what you want I guess. We here in the working class are tired, overworked, and are trying to survive the day.
You’re more frustrated at people that don’t leave tips over the fact you are seen as less than a person by the owners that pay a pitiful wage. Look to the people that came before you, look up Mario Savio.
The non-tippers are complicit, they patronize my job and give the owner their money, but don’t think I’m deserving of any either as evidenced by them not tipping. My boss doesn’t give a shit whether I’m tipped or not, and if I leave over it he’ll have my replacement within the hour and the system continues.
Sure, be an ideologue all you want and “tipping is wrong!” So don’t come into my store. That’s the only way to make my boss feel it instead of me, if you come in, give him $20 and give me the finger for wasting time on you, yes, of course I’m mad at both of you.
So if nobody went to your store because they don’t want to tip the restaurant would close and you’d be fired.
You are being exploited by your boss. The people tipping you are subsidizing that exploitation. You want to be pissed, go be pissed at your boss or find another job.
As another user mentioned plenty of wait staff are in favour of tipping so also because of that it doesn’t change
And it’s a descriminative and unfair system. Theres plenty of data on it.
Yes. People can do what they want. Tips are optional, and are for good service…not to subsidize owners. If you can’t afford to work in a restaurant, find something else to do for a living.
Just go eat at McDonalds then.
I haven’t eaten at a McDonald’s since the 90s. I refuse to support that corporation.
I just think that it’s on owners to pay their staff a living wage, or for staff to realize they’re not going to be able to make a decent living and move on to something where they can. If an owner can’t make that work, the business wasn’t strong enough to survive anyways.
I lived in Australia for a few years and think their system is far better. The only way our system is going to change is for people to reject it.
The business keeps going, it finds another hungry, almost homeless person to exploit, and keeps making profit because people like you keep going. Put your money where your mouth is and do not patronize these places or you ARE part of the problem. The only way our system changes is if THE CUSTOMER rejects it, victim blaming the workers is frankly kinda lame.
I’m blaming the owners, not the workers. I tip 18%, which i think is more than fair.
That’s the victim blame-y part, it’s very “go back to your country if you don’t like it here” but “meant well,” however misguided.
Tipping like that definitely is fair, it means the worker at least is taken care of, but it does still buy into the system and perpetuate it (though it is much better than those that go and don’t tip!!) If you were serious about changing the system you’d still have to stop going at all (which would hurt the workers, but would also hurt the owners as opposed to the entitled ones who go and don’t tip, who only hurt the workers.)
Personally imo you’re fine, as long as you either “don’t go there” or “do tip if needed,” but the truth remains that the only, only way to change the overall system starts with the customers rejecting it.
Wait you take a moral stand against McDonald’s but are willing to stiff workers at restaurants and support owners that are taking advantage of them? This take makes no sense.
I tip 18%, which is more than fair.
This is generally false. Most waiters would see more consistent income with fewer instances of subjective nonsense like ideologues who don’t believe they have to follow the basic cultural rules of the place in which they visit. There is an exceptional subset of waiters that would make less for sure but they are in a minority.
I put livable wage in quotation marks because it wouldn’t actually be a livable wage. The pay would likely be 1-2x minimum wage which is still not livable in most places
People most definitely want to be paid by their employer rather than tips. This isn’t a bottom up movement keeping tipping in place. It is ultra rich people invested in the restaurant industry that keep it around. The same people that use the National Restaurant Association to effectively lobby against minimum wage hikes to meet that “livable wage” and pro-unionization regulation.
Not once you consider healthcare, taxes, and social security.
The presence of a livable wage doesn’t affect any of those though?
The employer still pays FICA on tipped revenue, and paying for insurance has nothing to do with their wage
Nope. It’s not my obligation to pay their wages directly. They can accept no tip, they can lobby for a living wage from their employer, or they can find a different job. I am okay with all of the above.
The only way change happens is through action, not just crying about it. If you want change, stop tipping.
ah yes, put the onus on the people just trying to survive while still patronizing the restaurant that the owner continues to make profits on.
If you feel this strongly, you should boycott all restaurants that make their servers rely on tips.
Yet still the only one hurt is the worker, the boss got theirs when you paid for your meal.
“The worker can leave if they don’t like serving me for free while worrying about homelessness” yeah, and you could cook at home or go to a restaurant that doesn’t use the tipping model (they exist), yet you chose to go somewhere that the worker relies on tips and enjoy in the exploitation with the owner, you are an essential part in keeping the business running the way it does. On top of that you exploit them further yourself by knowing full well how it works and who you’re really hurting and justifying it in your selfish mind so you can pinch pennies. Even if the worker does quit the owner just pulls the top application off the stack and gives them a call, there’s a revolving door of people willing to do whatever they have to to avoid becoming homeless. Most often that worker then just cycles to another restaurant an continues the cycle themselves as they can get another waitstaff job easier than anything else.
Not only are you literally changing nothing, you’re actively participating in the exploitation you claim to be against, you’re not the business owner, no, but without you his exploitation wouldn’t work.