OP, per Rule 4, for accessibility reasons, an image of text must either have alt text or a transcript in the post body.
Edit: Counting this as a warning for future posts, OP, but since you might not be here to address this, a transcript in a comment as a lesser substitute:
Bushra Shaikh (@Bushra1Shaikh): How TF did Americans vote the clown in, not once but TWICE.
Readers added context
This creator posted on Election Day 2024: "Punish the democrats for their passive response to the genocide in Palestine. If there ever was a party who should have stood firmly against it, we would’ve assumed the Dems. They proved otherwise. F Kamala Harris. Hope she loses.” [truncated URL to the post here]
Thank you for having and enforcing this rule. It’s appreciated!
I know it’s not a lot, but when I was doing some UI work on PCSX2, I tried the screen reader Orca on Linux to see what a blind person’s experience interacting with the UI was like. It was unusable. There was practically nothing. (Apparently on macOS it was kind of okay, but not because of anything the PCSX2 application was doing correctly.) It was staggering how terrible the experience was; even the tab ordering through the UI elements wasn’t enforced, so the element focus was like a game of connect-the-dots darting around the window. We weren’t using any – even trivial – accessibility functionality in Qt. To this day, I think most of that still needs to be done, as I only managed with my minimal knowledge to fix some low-hanging fruit (which would hopefully have at least helped a little).
What prompted me to try this? PS2 games are such a visual experience, after all. A fan replied to our Mastodon account saying that 1) he was totally blind from birth, 2) he loved playing PS2 games growing up, and 3) his favorite one was OutRun 2006 (yes, the high-speed racing game). This wasn’t a gag; he was visibly blind and detailed his experience. This wasn’t a one-off either; multiple users who note that they’re totally blind in their bio have followed the account. It really humanized something I’d conceptualized generically as something you should do because it’s a good thing to do. The most succinct way to put the lesson I was smacked in the face with was: “If you build it, they will come.”
That is, I know for sure that it’s not just a formality when I enforce it.
…but no link to the source, or anything actually useful? How did this format post become allowed on a news aggregation site–a platform literally designed for linking to outside sources.
Reddit karma-farming. Imgur was more responsible for the decline of Reddit than any other factor. Screenshots of other social media is somehow a hit
Right, but now I’m asking about rules made by the designers, and Admins, not what users do.
I apologize if I’m just being stupid about this, but I take this opportunity to ask: how do we add alt-text to an image on Lemmy? I always add it on Mastodon, but I’ve never figured out how to do it on Lemmy (I use the web interface, maybe it requires a special app?). I’ve seen that others have done it, and I see that it’s a rule here for images of text, which is good. But HOW to do it?
Thanks!
Edit: Thanks everyone for the answers!
images on lemmy are shaped like links, and alt text is supposed to fit in the description, so when completed it looks like this:
I think it might be fractured as a feature on Lemmy, which is why putting it in the body is also allowed.
On Voyager, once I upload an image, there’s a little stick figure button that lets me “Add an accessible caption” (the alt text). On desktop, there’s an “Alt Text” option that shows up once I’ve uploaded an image.
Since I have no clue if all UIs do this or if users know where it is, body posts are fine if slightly less(?) useful for accessibility.
If you are posting directly on Lemmy, near the bottom of “Create a Post” there is a field called “Alt text”. It only appears if you upload an image. The alt text filed will be right above Community and underneath Language.
Some mobile clients such as Thunder support it. But if you don’t use a client that supports the feature, then you’re generally expected to put the transcript into the post body.
Kamla Harris was a total mistake of a candidate, she was never going to beat trump
Okay, so:
- Voting Democrat in the general election is the choice with least horrible consequences and
- Voting Democrat in the general election isn’t nearly enough to stop the ratchet-effecting into fascism, and a stand-for-nothing placeholder centrist Democrat president in 2028 will probably just lead to Trump-3/Vance/someone similarly horrible in 2032
are unfortunately both true.
Also, non-MAGA Americans - democrats and leftists alike - need better people skills. With infighting like this, Republicans hardly even need to lift a finger.
That this has over 700 upvotes on lemmy.world says everything you need to know about lemmy.world.
You see it turns out you can have more than 1 thought in your head at once. Trump can be a fascist who materially supports a genocide and the democrat party can also be materially supporting a genocide. Look at how little they’ve done to stop the Iran war. Why do you think that is?
IMO it doesn’t matter if you do a 3rd party protest vote if you’re not in a swing state. The system is fundamentally broken by design
There seems to be a ton of finger pointing from liberals (mostly outside of leemy). Trump won on promises to gullible fools on literally making cost of living cheaper (this includes fascist and non fascist talking points)
The dems lost on not conveying their solutions to cost of living well and of course not taking a stand against the faction of war and genocide that many of them are actively working for or with.
A lot of establishment dems are just mad it’s not their brand of authoritarianism
this garbage again. now it’s voter fault that they forced a superpac shill who told the voters to stfu while bombing kids in refugee camp and let megacorps fck working class. this time they didn’t even bothered with a sham primary like hillary or biden.
all mainstream dems other than aoc, warren and bernie are still spitting on its base. has harris or dem leadership done one thing to change their stance or support its people after election ?
keep voting lesser evil and you will keep getting two faced snakes with better propaganda.
Nothing wrong with voting 3rd party. Blame the people who don’t vote/vote for the side you don’t like.
Yeah, in glorious free America, there are only ever two choices. Ain’t democracy great?
This was all over Lemmy, too, along with all the other social media platforms.
It pretty much disappeared everywhere the instant trump won, as well as the complaints about grocery prices and the lies about gas prices.
The exception was lemmy, prob thanks to hex, grad, and ml, where people still find the time to randomly inject democrat hate.
Vote For The Lesser Fascist next time, dipshit.
I remember arguing for days, in 2024, that the whole “Democrats are bad because Palestine” thing was clearly a psyop by Russian bots trying to mess with the election. I really need to improve my persuasion skills. Like by a lot.
Liberals: I can fix that voter, I just need to find the right logic combo in my persuasion.
Also Liberals: if voters were rational they would vote for the lesser evil.
Keep lecturing people, I am sure it will work this time around.
“People who oppose genocide can’t possibly be human: they must be foreigners”
You guys I just as fascist as MAGA you know
“Democrats are bad because Palestine” thing was clearly a psyop by Russian bots
By “Palestine” do you mean “supporting genocide in Palestine”?
Well the reality isn’t much better. They put a candidate in that couldn’t beat anyone in the primaries, but was added because Biden wanted to run again.
Is there any possible way to disagree with you that you won’t read as a Russian bot trying to undermine democracy?
It’s such a thought-terminating cliche that anyone can use to dismiss any criticism. I could just as easily say that you’re a DNC bot. Like, fuck critical thinking, I guess.
I mean, the democrats ARE bad because Palestine. But the Republicans are worse, by A LOT.
Harris saw a 6M vote undercount relative to Biden. You can argue all the reasons why, but you can’t deny Democrats would have won if they’d been as popular in 2020 as they were in 2024.
It’s bizarre to see people insist this collapse in support has nothing to do with the policies of the party people stopped liking.
In the same vein, there’s a real hard November coming for the GOP this year. Their incompetence is going to cost them.
Exactly. And frankly, any person who blames the voters rather than the politician is a deplorable. You have to be the biggest dumbass on Earth to think that trying to shame voters is a good electoral strategy. Kamala lost because she was a terrible candidate. Her loss is her fault. Not the voters.
If more people could know more than one thing can be true like you do, we’d probably have the energy crisis solved and relative peace globally…
Pretty sure Democrats doing nothing to stop the genocide in gaza was a factor to their detriment in the election, bots aside
Even knowing that Trump was going to actively help Bibi? That’s the thing I didn’t understand: sure, the Democrats were not doing much to stop the slaughter, but from the previous Trump administration we knew Trump was going to actively help.
In terms of any actual metric, Biden was as bad if not worse than Trump in Gaza, but because BlueMAGA were engaging in mass genocide denial when it was their team doing it, they don’t realise.
Yes. Because what so many folks can’t seem to get is that different people are different. And they have different ethics.
This is literally the entire point of the trolley problem. Yes, you can stick your fingers in your ears and say, “always pull the lever for the track with fewer people on it.” But that’s just not how ethics works. Utilitarian ethics is one way to live life, but utilitarians have this incredibly annoying habit of assuming that theirs is the only valid ethical system, and that you’re a complete moron if you follow any other school of thought.
You’re demonstrating a utilitarian sense of ethics. One who follows a respect-for-persons belief system would say that the ends don’t justify the means. That it’s not fine to pull the trolley lever, even if that would result in a net saving of lives. That it’s fine to vote to hold people accountable, even if that will objectively result in net material harm. It’s not always about the greatest good for the greatest number. Otherwise, for example, we would never put any research dollars into studying cures for rare diseases. Those dollars could always objectively do more good elsewhere.
Hell, even our criminal laws don’t follow a utilitarian sense of ethics. You can’t legally get out of consequences from killing someone by saying, “this on net saved lives.” Even if you can objectively prove it, you’re not legally allowed to kill people. It doesn’t matter if your murder on net saves lives, you’re still a murderer. If a gang kidnaps your two children and tells you, “you must go kill this other one person if you want them to live.” If you do that, if you go and kill that stranger to save your own kids? You will be charged and convicted of murder. You’re not allowed to kill one innocent person to save two innocent people.
Many people voted against or refused to vote for Kamala because they were trying to punish her and the Democratic Party. Voting is the only way we have of holding politicians and parties accountable. Millions of voters saw the horrific haughtiness and barbarity of how the Democrats acted around Gaza, and they wanted to punish them for it. It was about holding them accountable. It was about justice. Many voted against Kamala to punish her for supporting genocide. And if the likely thing came to pass, if Trump supported genocide as well? Well those voters would vote against him for the same reason. They vote to hold people accountable for past actions, not to speculate on future ones. Maybe not how you vote, but again, people are different and can use whatever ethical system they want in choosing their vote.
Again, you can argue greatest good for greatest number, but that isn’t the only system of ethics out there, and it’s not even the system that defines the foundation of our legal codes.
Even knowing that Trump was going to actively help Bibi?
The US was doing it anyway before Trump2.0
My dad gave me $1 to seed a lemonade stand. Trump’s dad gave him billions.
Our experiences are equivalent.
Ok, but you see how massively demoralizing this conversation is, right?
Making logical points weighing up two distinct yet similar stances on genocide is only going to suppress voter turnout.
It shouldn’t. It’s basic harm reduction.
One side probably won’t stop it, but they’re on our side so there’s a sliver of a cintilla of a chance we could pressure them into it.
The other side absolutely would not, vocally stated he would help accelerate it, and would laugh in our faces and do even more to accelerate it for no other reason than it made us mad.
The choice should have been obvious, even if I and everyone else would have preferred better options.
The very fact that the Trolley Problem exists as a thought experiment and there is still active discourse over the correct solution should tell you why people didn’t all feel that they had a responsibility to vote for harm reduction. You can’t expect an election that resembles a famously divisive philosophical thought experiment to turn out with everyone arriving at the same conclusion, and it’s pointless to dwell on the fact that everyone didn’t fall in line with what you think is obvious rather than adjusting to the reality and acting accordingly. That means getting candidates elected in primaries that aren’t going to put us in the same trolley problem come time for the general.
That means getting candidates elected in primaries that aren’t going to put us in the same trolley problem
You can also put pressure on candidates mid-campaign to change posture.
I can tell you this, the Venn Diagram of the people itt blaming voters for the Democrats supporting a genocide in 2024, and the people who didn’t want Biden to step down is basically a perfect circle. Its also the same circle which shielded Harris from any critiques on her support for genocide.
See people aren’t exclusively machines.
I know people who felt that both sides at least tacitly supporting the genocide was so depressing that for their mental health they basically checked out of politics.
No, that response isn’t helpful, but it’s a very real thing that happens to real people. They needed a candidate that cared that people’s lives were ending across the sea, and neither side offered that.
That hurt Kamala’s chances in a very real way, and might even be the deciding factor for Trump’s second term.
While you and I can look at this and go “Wow, that’s not logical, she’s way better than Trump”, the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would’ve cost money.
So while it’s true that the choice was still objectively obvious, it’s also completely true that the Democratic campaign absolutely mishandled it, because this isn’t some new phenomenon, and group human psychology isn’t unpredictable. It’s also not the fault of those who didn’t vote because of that.
While you and I can look at this and go “Wow, that’s not logical, she’s way better than Trump”, the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would’ve cost money.
D and R parties both need independent voters to win any election. For example, even if every D voted for a D, they would lose without independents voting for them in significant numbers. This has been a political fact for many years.
So… why did the Harris campaign target REPUBLICAN voters (instead of Ds and independents)? They wasted a lot of vital time on that (“He doesn’t need to know who you voted for” etc), and they knew that they would lose if they did so.
She knew it too, Harris isn’t stupid. She took a knee.
I’m not fully convinced the conspiracy is that deep, but also if hard evidence came out saying so, I wouldn’t be surprised.
yep, and the Dem leadership still support israel no matter what they do. They learned nothing and will try to set up the same voter hostage situation in every vote from now on.
Right? Makes that other comment under this seem more valid.
Just because humans are vulnerable to certain psychological effects, doesn’t mean it’s not the fault of those who were effected by them. Humans are also vulnerable to stress eating. That doesn’t remove the blame from fat asses with no self-control.
And this person absolutely should have better self-control, whoever the fuck, sorry, TF she is.
We don’t live in a world of “should”, in the real world of course it is demoralizing and affects the vote turnout.
We all know the US government will back Israel no matter what… and the voters can only punish the incumbent party for doing so.
65% of Democrats don’t want to finance Israel. Two thirds of their own party, that’s massive!
Voter turnout will continue to fall; D and R parties will continue to lose voters (now down to 30% registered voters each) and the Independents will continue to grow (now up to 40% of voters).
Why? Because our major parties ignore what their constituents actually want, and we can only punish one party every term.
It shouldn’t be that way, but it is.
The problem then being the electorate. The same group so many here want to absolve. You may not care about politics and want to ‘check out’ but it still cares about you and will still effect you even if you try to ignore it. In that vein elections will still happen and people you agree/disagree with will still be given power over you and your life. No matter how low the turn out a decision will be made with or without your input. Better to do what you can to give that input and make it the most useful it can be, before you get no input at all
The same people in this thread blaming voters for how Kamala Harris ran their campaign were the same ones insisting we had to run Biden as the incumbent, and calling you a bit or a school if you said they needed to be replaced.
We wouldn’t have this outcome if the people who’ve made it their entire identity to blame voters had placed their frustrations with the party and demanded better, sooner, when it could have made a material difference.
It shouldn’t.
Perhaps. But that’s not the world we live in. Demanding an electorate to suddenly change in a way it never has and start behaving like Homo economicus is only going to lead to further loses.
Honestly, people behaving like Homo economicus is how you get MAGA.
Think about it. Isn’t Trump’s pitch to voters ultimately an argument in rational self-interest? It’s all “I’ll make an in group and an out group. You’ll be in the in group. I’ll pull up the in group while pushing down the out group.”
Racism and sexism are rational. Or at least they are rational from those that benefit from them. Think about a white male living in the Jim Crows South. Your life was made soooo much easier by racism and sexism. There were whole career fields where they were the only quarter of the population that were eligible for them. They were automatically in the top quarter of society, simply by their race and sex.
Anti-immigrant zealotry is rational. If you’re a native-born US citizen working in the construction industry? Every legal or illegal immigrant being deported would cause your standard of living to soar. Economists would tell you that on net it will harm the economy. But if suddenly the pool of construction workers is cut in half, any US citizen who knows how to swing a hammer is now rolling in dough. That’s the rational terror of fascism - every time another group in the “first they came for” poem is liquidated, someone ends up with their property, their jobs, their place in the social order, etc.
You NEED to have a respect for persons built into your ethical framework, or else you can end up justifying evils of all sorts, all in the name of the greater good. Hell, Dr. Mengele slept well every night, content in the knowledge that he was doing the greatest good for the greatest number.
If every election is a decision between the lesser of two evils and both evils become more evil over time then harm isn’t actually reduced in the long run. This is why harm reduction is a failing long term electoral strategy.
they’re on our side
The side of genocide, oligarchy and fascism?
It’s basic harm reduction.
Nonsense.
Absolute nonsense, and the Palestinian Americans who voted ‘undetermined’ en masse during the Democratic primaries to send a message to Biden/Harris knew it too. The party made their choice between the people and an unpopular genocide. They chose genocide.
Hey guess what. The genocide got even worse under harris’ opposition. How did that work out for all the genocide joe non-voters. How have palestinians benefitted under those protest votes/non-votes. Not to mention all the dead iranians that wouldnt be had harris won
That’s true.
It always does, because both ruling parties exist in service to Israel. And therefore, they have no impetus to do anything but escalate.
Had she been elected we’d be in exactly the same position.
What is more the “Democrat are bad because Palestine” was the opposition’s framing. The argumeny was pretty unanimous that the policy on Palestine was going to cost the Democrats the election. The Democrats were bad because they knew full well they were going to choose to lose over changing that policy.
And that’s just tunnel visioning at only the Israeli policy.
Yeah, the choice was bad or worse, and people chose worse. Life sucks sometimes, they need to grow up.
If genocide is bipartisan, then the less bad choice is whatever collapses the US the fastest. You wouldn’t try to choose the leader of Nazi Germany based on who’s going to run the holocaust most effectively
I don’t want to cut off this gangrene foot because it will be unpleasant. Let’s just wait it out and see what what happens.
This was never a difficult decision and the ones that thought it was are fundamentally simple people.
Yes, I can see that it would be demoralizing, and it was demoralizing. The Schumer/Biden wing of the Democrats deserves to be cast into the bonfire of the vanities, they are completely useless. And while this might sound sarcastic, I truly believe they have ended their usefulness, if they ever had much.
But we are talking about human beings and their lives. It may not make much of a philosophical difference to compare different stances on this senseless slaughter, but it makes eminently practical sense to save the lives you can. An American Presidential election was not going to produce much of a genocide-stopping president in 2024, and I hope 2028 does better, but there were distinct differences in approach and stance and collaboration with Bibi.
Case in point, look up “Gaza floating pier,” vs. “Trump Gaza resort.” it’s not about philosophical differences when you are starving.
If genocide is bipartisan, then the less bad choice is whatever collapses the US the fastest. You wouldn’t try to choose the leader of Nazi Germany based on who’s going to run the holocaust most effectively
Case in point, look up “Gaza floating pier,” vs. “Trump Gaza resort.” it’s not about philosophical differences when you are starving.
BlueMAGA is a parody of itself
the floating pier from day one was to have israeli guards at the end of it. It was a pretend situation where Israel could have instead just opened one gate into gaza instead for the exact same effect. Its a transparent and idiotic PR game and always was, and evidently you fell for it. Or you’re pushing the same braindead propoganda narrative with a straight face. How was the pier any different than a gate on land?
The Gaza floating pier was used to do warcrimes, then dismantled.
Fuck demoralizing. People made a conscious choice to screw the United States for ar least 3 more years…all because they were “demoralized”. So how bad are they depressed right now? “I’M DEMORALIZED…SO I’LL DO SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE IT EXPONENTIALLY WORSE.” Here in the south, we call that “short bus thinking”. Yeah, I called those people the terrible R word…maybe I’ll take it back when they stop acting that way. And I don’t give a fuck. They fucked up. They can own it or cry into their lattes. I REALLY don’t give a fuck about their whining.
I’m glad monsters like you are suffering
Your shitty system will always produce fascism as long as you don’t hold the slightly less fascist party accountable. Last election the dems threw immigrants and palestinians under the bus in the name of ‘appeasing the center’ next election it will be trans people that will lose all political support and some time afterwards the dems will fold on womens rights in their stupid attempt to become the republicans lite edition.
Uhh trans people lost support last election. Or were you not paying attention to all the anti-trans legislation coming out.
Making logical points weighing up two distinct yet similar stances on genocide is only going to suppress voter turnout.
It’s the same as any other US election. We always have two shit sandwich options forced by the parties. There’s always some absolutely fucked position they’re both going to work towards and it is just a factor of which is less bad.
There have been other genocides the US has supported for decades elsewhere that go one gave a fuck about. The issues in Gaza aren’t new, they’re just more visible right now because of Israeli lobbying, one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the US.
Not doing much to stop it is a weird way of saying actively helping it.
I see you too are actively helping it then. It’s your own words!
Yeah buddy I wasn’t saying not actively working against it was helping it. I meant literally helping it. That Administration was actively arming the Israelis and aiding in the genocide. Super weird that you didn’t know that.
Ok then tell me this, did Bibi like Biden? Did he want Biden to win? Did he think Biden let him do all he wanted? What did Biden say about Bibi in return?
Then you can look at things like Republicans voting to force continued sales of weapons
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/us/politics/house-bill-reverse-israel-arms-pause.html
Meanwhile; https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5429072-sanders-resolution-fails-israel-military/
Tell me what Biden could’ve done that wouldn’t amount to starting a war?
Ok then tell me this, did Bibi like Biden?
Who gives a fuck! You ghouls care more about your fucking parasocial kayfabe character drama than the lives of millions of people
Biden Administration Bypassed Congress on Weapons Sale to Israel
To start with, he could have, uh, not bypassed congress on weapons sales to Israel.
Its illegal to send weapons or money to a country that is committing genocide. Biden could have simply said he cannot legally support Israel in any way and then just not. Instead Biden chose to lie for Israel aboiut 40 beheaded babies and provide unlimited diplomatic support, going so far as to bomb Yemen for resisting.
Democratic leadership knew this would decrease turnout, they prioritized unlimited support for Israel over winning the election.
Pretty trivially easy question. Biden could have done a lot of things – vetoed funding and stopped running interference for Israel in the UN. And he could have called it a genocide and illegal on the world stage. Biden refused to call it a genocide. He could have called for an international force to stop the killing. He also flew recon missions for the Israelis with US drones over Gaza didnt he.
And “starting a war”? with who, Israel? Are you stupid? That war would last 5 minutes. Biden took massive amounts of money from AIPAC his entire career, and called himself a zionist all the time. Your pretending he had no choice and was simply a victim of circumstance is pure lies. He was massively bribed. A corrupt peice of shit genocide supporter. He would absolutely lose his case and be imprisoned if the US had done the right thing and signed onto the ICC. He belongs in an orange jumpsuit, sharing a cell with trump.
actively help Bibi?
What would you call Genocide Joe keeping the WMD shipments flowing, on time, without end, even during a manufactured famine?
This is one issue where both parties are literally the same.
I mean, Trump at this time did say that he was going to put American boots on the ground in Gaza and pave it over to put up a luxury beach resort, so I wouldn’t say that they’re literally the same on this, but it’s a measure between actively supporting genocide and actively supporting and taking part in said genocide through direct military action.
Both parties love Israeli money, one just also happens to be run by a man who would love to wipe non-white ethnicities off the planet and build more towers to his inflated ego where they once lived.
American boots on the ground in Gaza and pave it over to put up a luxury beach resort,
Don’t see much difference apart from the jersey being worn by the
settlersmurderers and raiders, personally. The policy is ultimately the same.run by a man who would love to wipe non-white ethnicities off the planet and build more towers to his inflated ego where they once lived.
And I’m sure Joe ‘Fund the Police’ Biden and his sidekick Harris are super concerned about non-white ethnicities. His enthusiasm for keeping the WMD’s flowing mid-genocide and mid-famine really sells me on his supposed empathy for them too.
This isn’t a zero sum game and this isn’t about defending a president who can at best be said to have kept the ship afloat and recovered some of the economic damage caused by Trump’s COVID response, nor the shitty option B the Dems forced on us without a primary. All of the above can be terrible. That’s always an option.
You see one jersey or the other, I saw two jerseys with twice the players on the horizon. The policy is the same now, but in 2024 during the election? When the guy who idolizes war mongers like Putin and who used to read Hitler’s speeches before bed (according to the biography of an ex-wife), and who had previously said about the Middle East that he wanted to “nuke the sand into glass” said that he wanted to invade Gaza and put a carrier just off the coast, I fully believed that the strip would be gone and the people who lived there a footnote in the history books written by Israel and the US by now.
Both suck. Both support genocide. But one was talking about accelerating it by an order of magnitude that didn’t leave nukes off the table. If they hadn’t replaced the big red button in the Oval Office with one that orders a diet coke, he would’ve slammed it the first chance he got.
defending a president who can at best be said to have kept the ship afloat and recovered some of the economic damage
“Hitler made the trains run on time”
Doing nothing to stop it, cheering on Universities and police that beat and punished protesters, refusing to let Ruwa Romman or anyone else anti-genocide speak at their convention, etc.
Their policy was bad and they were assholes about it at every opportunity. It’s honestly amazing she got as many votes as she did.
Which is a fucking stupid line for people to draw when the opposition was advertising that they would actively do more in a worse way.
In terms of any actual metric, Biden was as bad if not worse than Trump in Gaza, but because BlueMAGA were engaging in mass genocide denial when it was their team doing it, they don’t realise
It absolutely was.
They didn’t send Bill Clinton to give primary speeches wagging his finger at Palestinian Americans for nothing.
I was fighting that battle right there alongside you, but yes the astroturfing was enormous. Sometimes I felt like I was the only sane person out there.
It helps to remember that there were hundreds of millions, potentially billions, of dollars going specifically to shilling for trump and putin and disparaging the democrats.
“People who oppose genocide can’t possibly be human: they must be foreigners”
You guys I just as fascist as MAGA you know
The amount of that shit that was going on even here showed it worked. Pretty much all of those accounts are silent now. Shows you how the russian bots poisoned the election.
“People who oppose genocide can’t possibly be human: they must be foreigners”
You guys I just as fascist as MAGA you know
Some people still deny it, but it’s not like you need to wear a tinfoil hat to realize it. The kremlin openly admits to doing this shit.
Scroll up, there’s more than a few sunk cost fallaciors still about.
Yea I just noticed after I posted…
Right? Having to deal with all those bots showing all the times the democrats supported Israel’s actions and refused to support Palestinians and refused to call or support any sanctions or supported BDS
Must have been exhausting particularly since you had zero evidence to the contrary. I can see how that would be an uphill battle when facts aren’t on your side.
You do realize your tactic here was literally the same tactic as when MAGAs call something “fake news,” right? Uncannily identical.
I tagged loads of accounts at the time, thinking they were just bots or plants, but a couple are still around and now I think maybe they’re just well-meaning morons who couldn’t quite figure out the implications…
Yes, some well-intentioned people may have been duped into spreading the propaganda. The goal of astroturfing is to convince ordinary people of what they’re shilling, ultimately getting others to repeat it.
The trolls only inject the mind virus, but once it’s accepted by an (un)critical mass, it kinds takes on a life of its own…
Damn, I wonder how you managed to lose the election with such compelling messages as “anyone who opposes us has been mind controlled by foreigners”
It’s weird though. One of the accounts I tagged has just become more and more reasonable and I feel like. Idk. They certainly weren’t all bad or deceptive people – and being mean to and about them won’t really help them figure it out … OTOH fuck ppl who do stupid shit because they’re too proud to accept inherent complicity in the evils of the lesser.
Still can’t.
Excellent username btw
I misread the spine of a book when I was 10 and looking for my first username. George Eliot is fucking phenomenal though and no regregts.
I can’t fathom how any of those people thought Trump would consider Palestine anything but a future golf course. It’s been annihilated as a country and a people under Trump.
It’s been annihilated as a country and a people under Trump.
That happened under Biden, you were just a genocide denying ghoul when your team was doing it
under Trump.
Most of the genocide and leveling of Gaza happened under Biden. But yes it continued under trump. Israel owns both US political parties.
So I dont know why you say “under Trump” – its the exact same thing under both Trump and Biden. We let Israel do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, to whoever they want, funded by us.
Seems you want to pretend Dems are better about it but I dont see how you can contrive any difference between 100% enablement and support.
In terms of Palestine? I don’t know how you yanked that interpretation out. If it doesn’t change with either party then the only reason to vote Trump is spite, followed by a leopard eating your faces.
In terms of everything else? Yes and no. I do know we would not have:
- Further rollback of civil liberties of women
- a tax plan (impending) intended to trap women in marriage
- brown shirt army stalking people and performing street executions
- war with Iran
- gas prices that will continue to rise long after the war with Iran is done
- A rollback on all solar and wind programs / projects
- rollback of consumer protections re banks, credit cards, junk fees
- halt on internet being made an essential utility
- a tax plan that pushes billionaires toward becoming trillionaires
- NIOSH gutted, good luck with work safety gear manufactured from here on out
- Elections being gutted for midterms via the US postal service
- Speech, now, you can’t even protest Israel without being arrested or booted.
- Impending collapse of the dollar
- Cuba
- All those dead fishermen in South American waters
- Further privacy erosion in favor of Google, META, Microsoft, etc
- Disrespect and disenfranchising military vets, like Kelly and all the randomly expelled career generals in an attempt to make the military another brown shirt brigade
- And I’m sick of listing this crap.
Arguably, 9 & 16 would probably still happen, but in slower subtler ways. The rest? Every spite vote or lack thereof made it happen.
I don’t like our two party system. But unless you have an actual solution that fixes it at the time of an election, then the spite play does indeed hurt all.
I’ve given up on changing republicans. We should either change the dems, or burn our entire government to the ground without much delay. Those are our options. Changing Dems means setting boundaries and sticking to them. And boundaries cant be only around during the primary. Dems either adhere to universal human rights for all or they lose in every way I can make them lose, thats my deal with them, they can take it or leave it-- I dont care if they – or you like it. Its not asking for much. and I’m willing to burn the democratic party and our stupid governmental system to the ground to get it, just like the zionists and their creatures are willing to do.
You want to wave a stack of lesser causes and pretend they compare at all to genocide? stuff like:
halt on internet being made an essential utility
oh my. You weigh that list of comparatively trivial bullshit against genocide of hundreds of thousands of innocents, journalist, and doctors huh. Well I think they dont even begin to compare, and it doesnt speak well of you that you’d even try to compare them. Kind of disgusting and self centered. Oh no, your gas is more expensive? You poor dear. This is “killing” you, I can tell. You’re basically being “genocided” by high gas prices and the internet not being considered a public utility arent you. Why cant you just stand up firmly for universal human dignity and human rights? Would that be so bad?
Those people were too busy cranking their own holier-than-thou hogs to consider it. Which is why they’re confused (see OP) and retreating to their FSB-designed playbook.
Solutions would be nice, instead of whatever this spite spewing rage scream is.
You refuted the argument by providing all the evidence against it, I presume. You listed all the instances where leading Democrats supported Palestinians in the face of aggression, which are very numerous.
I mean, since that would be the way to remove any doubt
Or maybe we should demand politicians who aren’t genocidal? I’m not a Russian bot, I just refuse to follow the same bullshit “vote blue no matter who” harm reduction narrative that just leads to infinitely more harm in the long run.
The car is already skidding on the ice. Saying “we should have taken the subway” is not useful at that point in time.
We’ll still be skidding in 2028, and 2032, and 2036, and 2040, and so on. Picture yourself in 2044 making this same argument. Now we’re arguing about Hitler (D) who wants to put trans people in prison, and Hitler ® who wants to put trans people in death camps. Both candidates are willing to launch a nuclear weapon in behalf of Israel. The car is already skidding, it’s too late to change things. If you don’t vote for Hitler (D), then you’re letting Hitler ® win.
Flash back to 2026. “Vote blue no matter who” just means democrats don’t have to appeal to leftists at all. In order to win, they just need to appeal to the right. Let’s force them to appeal to the left instead.
“Don’t vote until they learn how important we are” is how you join the third+ of the country that doesn’t vote and is therefore ignored by politicians.
Seriously, why do these people think politicians feel chastised by non-voters.
I never said don’t vote. Vote in every election possible. If that >33% of Americans who don’t vote did, we would never have a republican president again.
And yet a large portion of them don’t vote because of what you said in your previous comment. They say that their vote won’t matter because nothing will change, and therefore don’t vote.
If we could convince them to vote out the Republicans and then hold the Democratic party over the fire until we can replace them with actually competent candidates (third party or not, we should remove parties period and enact ranked choice imo), then we might have a chance. But no conversation ever gets past the first hurdle of “vote blue no matter who won’t change anything.”
And yet a large portion of them don’t vote because of what you said in your previous comment.
Maybe. I wonder how many leftists don’t bother voting because of what I said, and how many don’t bother voting because democrats routinely fail to achieve anything. Biden had four years to put us on the path to getting healthcare, to raising the minimum wage, to seeing Trump tried for treason, to releasing the Epstein files, to ending that one genocide, and he just sat around with his dick in his hand for four years instead.
I won’t hold it against any leftist if they voted for Biden and feel burned. I did, and I do. Would Harris have been better? Obviously. Would she have done anything to mitigate the violence and misery the next republican would bring? Nope. The best she would do is delay some of it for a few more years before it came back worse, just like Biden did.
You can’t just vote out the Republicans. They’re going to keep running forever. As long as Democrats can get wins just by being slightly less evil than Republicans, there will never be a fire to hold them over.
No. Voting in big elections is not the only action you take. This is a conflict with multiple fronts. You need to organize, talk to people, use every option.
Just abandoning the electoral front in this conflict is stupid
Voting in big elections is not the only action you take.
When did I say that it is? Please organize. Please vote in primaries. Do use every option. And also, force the Democratic party to understand that they have to appeal to leftists to get leftist votes, even when a conservative democrat wins a primary.
Now we’re arguing about Hitler (D) who wants to put trans people in prison
This is insane bullshit.
Both candidates are willing to launch a nuclear weapon in behalf of Israel.
Also bullshit. Your version of fox news is terrible.
Yeah you’re right, we should vote blue no matter who, even when the blue candidate does their best to appeal to right-wing voters. Surely this will have no bearing on the political leanings of democratic politicians in the future
I used to agree, but after seeing how lefties will refuse to vote for the most pointless reasons, I can see why they thought that strategy was better.
It wasn’t, of course, but I can see how their math said that.
“lefties refuse to vote for Democrats* for the smallest reason.”
probably because the Democrat party is not a Leftist party. Leftists owe the Democrats nothing as the Democrats have long been the center-right party.
I think the question is, what is the best way to get politicians who aren’t genocidal. Which is a specific case of the question of how you get change implemented.
I have seen people advocate for incremental change, and I have seen people advocate for revolution. The problem with incrementalism is that it looks like too little, and it’s uncertain in direction and can be reversed. The problem with revolutionism is that absolutely nothing happens until a cataclysmic change occurs, and then it’s absolutely not clear that the change is what people wanted in the first place.
Conservatives have achieved the monumental changes they wanted over the course of five decades. I find their goals repulsive, their methods disgusting, and their personalities (people in power) revolting. But I begrudgingly admit that their approach worked. They got absolutely everything they ever wanted, and their problem right now is that they, too, can’t live in the world they decidedly thought they wanted.
I don’t think people are saying you personally are a bot, but you’re falling for narratives pushed by bots. By allowing republicans to win this past election, infinitely more harm has been caused than even most people’s worst predictions and absolutely zero harm has been prevented. USAID is gone which will lead to millions of deaths abroad, crackpots like RFK Jr have been legitimized causing deaths to diseases which were effectively eliminated, disaster relief is being denied to blue states, and of course Israel has more freedom than ever before to do whatever they want to the Palestinian people.
Has any harm been reduced by allowing the republican party to have power? Can you acknowledge the harm that has already been caused by allowing them to have power?
And if the dems had won on their appeasement of the fascists strat they probably would have fumbled the bag one or two elections after that and all of the stuff you mentioned would happen anyways just now with even less of a chance for the dems to right things afterwards because they adopted the mindset the republicans had a few years ago.
Why are you libs so averse to the reality of the ratchet effect?
Yeah. I didn’t handle that well myself. But in all likelihood people were not going to change their minds anyway. It’s like trying to speak English to a duck.
Or maybe I just don’t like genocide.
Or maybe I just don’t like genocide.
Liberals:
Tell that to the Lebanese.
Maybe all genocides are bad. Is that difficult to understand for some reason?
Who did you vote for in the 2024 US presidential election?
Harris. Why does that matter? Am I pure enough to think genocide is wrong?
Because it means you at least tried to mitigate the harm. Most people who took that stance said that people shouldn’t bother voting at all because voting for either was supporting genocide.
No, that only exists in your head because you are a crazed rabid party zombie. Normal human being progressives think genocide is bad. It’s really fucking weird that you don’t.
$20 says they’re not a US voter
Neither am I. But my country is one of many negatively impacted by the orange turd.
Ah, I see that when you are confronted with reality you just reject it so you can continue masturbating to how you’re the only person on earth who is smart.
I accept PayPal, Apple Pay, Cash App, or Venmo jackass.
So how’s that panning out for you now?
‘Wouldn’t you have preferred the genocide with mock pearl clutching instead of glee’
No not really.
‘Wouldn’t you prefer a DNC and democratic establishment that believes it can win elections with genocidal conservative candidates that ignore the left wing of the party’
Also no.
I don’t understand the question. I still don’t like genocide. Do you?
So in your opinion did you get less genocide?
It sure seems like you’re setting up for some bullshit gotcha that’s really clever in your head. The sheer quantity of assumptions you have made about me for saying that I think genocide is bad is baffling.
Genocide is bad. Say it with me.
So you actively campaigned for more of it. Sounds like you fucked yourself. Is that so hard to understand?
When did I do that? Show me on the doll.
Funny how you can only win arguments against your imaginary friends.
It’s a failure of our history classes. People thought the US was better than that but they never learned we really aren’t and light genocide and pretending to feel bad about it is the best we can do.
Give up pursuing anyone of any argument these days. You’re better off calling them a dickhead and blocking them. That’s what I do now.
Fuck nonvoters and third party voters.
Good luck in 2028 lol
fuck you back, war crimes supporter. You should have made the dems do the right thing and you didnt lift a finger to do that during the entire campaign season. Dont come pretending you fought the good fight now. You didnt.
–the entire world
.1% of the entire world might be optimistic on your part
You are proposing that the world supports Israeli genocide of Palestine?
Are you some sort of bot or just a zionist?
I’m proposing that most people don’t care and even out of those who do, the total annihilation of the United States and the vulnerable people affected by it were a higher priority.
Post like these are why i think “vote blue no matter who” are an Israel psyops.
So while they push the less evil narrative that is a plausible, they get to continue their genocide with both parties under their control.
convenient, isn’t it?
So the whole world wants to annhialate the US is your theory, interesting. OK, well have fun with that.
Who did you vote for? If it was not for Kamala Harris thenthen you’re responsible for the current globalshitshow.
And I’m going to block asshats like you. Keep screaming into a void.
Oh thank god, yes please dont ever reply to me again, thank you very much. Talking to people like yourself is not worth my time or energy.
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I don’t think he was actually voted in. Literally stated “I already have the votes” before the election.
Both can be true. How TF we have 4 years to produce a candidate against trump, and the best we got was walking corpse Biden 2.0 and then Kamala “I’m speaking while your homeland is genocided” Harris.
Bernie Sanders has been the best we, the voters, have come up with. Biden and Harris were both offered to us as the only choices rich people would accept
Bernie also catches a ton of shit from the “Ziohran Obamadani >:C” people for blaming Netanyahu and not Israel. Since they have no goal other than making Trump win they would definitely refuse to vote for Bernard the Warlard or whatever stupid ass catch phrase they got told to say
Because the candidate doesn’t matter anymore. You will get some shit propaganda narrative hammered into your brain anyway (see: “vote for Trump so there will be no genocidal war in the middle east”).
So why would democrats care about anything else than their own internal power dynamics? It’s not like they can get a good candidate when collective brain-damage will make sure that it’s a totally useless candidate anyway once the screeching morons on (social) media tell you what your new reality is.
Since no one else is doing it… got to be the change you want to see yourself!
