US is incapable of peace with Iran. The only outcome will be US just leaving, as donald the brave victory retreat. Iran doen’t have a BeM demand. It has an Al Ansarah (Yemen) sanctions lifting demand, and cash upfront for any deal.
the price was raised by TRUMP, his insistence that the conflict continue as long as epstein files isnt on peoples search results, or airwaves.
Yep… it’s dumb to negotiate and try to play hardball if you don’t have the upper hand.
Fart of the Deal indeed
Dump has no cards and hasn’t said “Thank You” once. Sad!
This all sucks. We’re in the same situation as Russia. The strongman in charge can’t afford to admit defeat, and he doesn’t care about the cost, so there’s no end in sight. Something needs to happen to end this…
I keep crossing my fingers with old age, but it seems like evil people live the longest…
As long as people keep not standing up to them, they seem to.
Iran was now seeking the release of the entire $24 billion in frozen Iranian assets upfront
When you break your word twice a day, people will eventually figure out that your promises mean nothing.
I wonder if Trump will try his clearly working strategy of escalating things and yelling threats.
Maybe he’ll say some other country is offering to open the strait of hormuz for cheaper and Iran will get scared and cave.
after all: his strategy seems to be making a lot of people a lot of money. while ruining the lives of us american working class folk, and bombing schools full of middle eastern children.
ain’t no war but class war, indeed. they know we’re “used to” gas prices like this, they’ll never go down again.
For the unfamiliar, this is what they’re referring to. This is another thing that should’ve happened anyway but wasn’t going to happen under the rotten Western-led world order without Iran holding a knife to the neck of the global economy.
Well diarrhea donny just raised the stakes again telling the Iranian Islamic Republic (in front of the rest of the world) that he is considering killing them all
Unlike the kiddy diddler, those people are hardened fanatics and find honour in death… shit is just going to be worse and worse
Thank you Muricans… your dumbassery will be painful (if not deadly) for the entire world and we only have you to thank for it
Unlike the kiddy diddler, those people are hardened fanatics and find honour in death
Not crucial to your point but this sort of orientalism too often goes unchallenged. They’re not “hardened fanatics who find honor in death” (at least not any more than any other culture that values martyrdom, which is most of them); everything Iran has done so far can be explained through the cold hard math of geopolitics.
Agreed, what are US Marines but cold hard fanatics that find honor in death?
The US has cold soft fanatics that find honor in death (as long as some one else is doing all the fighting and dying)
That’s why the US military is mostly people without better prospects or any prospects. Most of the people I served with came from two core demographics: trapped without hope of escape in the ghetto or trapped without hope of escape from rural bumble fuck. The somewhat literal fear of going back to where you came from vs obliterating a bunch of “bad people” is an easy math problem.
While I understand your point… I think you will find a much larger number of people from Iran willing to become a suicide bomber compared to marines knowingly throwing themselves to death for the mission
I am not attempting to qualify either here are better or worse, just that religion fanatics are much more likely to go to extremes
larger number
you’re just flat wrong. american military propaganda and brainwashing is on par with the propaganda we are told happens in other militaries.
every accusation is an admission
I think you’re forgetting that US soldiers are also religious fanatics that grow up with the same level of abusive indoctrination.
I world put the “some” qualifier before US soldiers.
I’ve met my fair share that are who you describe, but I’ve also got some dear friends who worked in the military. One was because his dad is a two star general. The other was because it was the easiest way (for him) to get out of Utah. Both are religious, but they aren’t zealots.
I honestly can’t say for sure but I doubt it… anecdotally, the few Americans I know who did serve, did so as a way to get higher education paid for. None seem to have any particular love for what they were asked to do
This is of course anecdotal as I said, I do not know nearly enough people to say for sure nor have I read in-depth about this topic
everything Iran has done so far can be explained through the cold hard math of geopolitics.
In the current war, yes absolutely. Iran has been the most logical and reasonable party to this war.
But you seem to be missing my point. In Iran, thousands have been killed and their stance does not seem to change. In the USA, gas has gone up and that has done more to sway Americans against trump than the knowledge their government is actively killing thousands around the world, including women and children, without a second thought.
If push comes to shove, I would bet my bottom dollar Iran gov will hold until the end. The USA on the other hand, won’t survive the AI bubble bursting.
This was ALL visible and demonstrated recently in the disaster that was the invasion of Iraq
In Iran, thousands have been killed and their stance does not seem to change
You know how Americans came together and supported GWB to invade Iraq to get revenge for 911?
It’s the same thing. The American terrorist attacks on Iran made them come together and vowed revenge, except they are actually targeting the terrorists that attacked them not another nation.
I would bet my bottom Iran gov will hold until the end.
Well, they’ve thoroughly crushed their attacker and humiliated them, and they’ve successfully decolonized most of the region (US bases are closing and they’re not returning). Why wouldn’t they hold?
This was ALL visible and demonstrated recently in the disaster that was the invasion of Iraq
Uhhh… which part was visible and demonstrated? Iraq now has a US friendly government, it was a complete success. ISIS taking over was the disaster in Iraq, not the invasion itself. The US captured Saddam, put him through a sham trial and he was hung in a dark shed, stole the oil, destroyed the nation, and slaughtered millions of Iraqis.
They wanted to repeat that.
In Iran, thousands have been killed and their stance does not seem to change. In the USA, gas has gone up and that has done more to sway Americans against trump than the knowledge their government is actively killing thousands around the world, including women and children, without a second thought.
So the answer here is twofold: First, that’s not being hardened fanatics; that’s a difference in popular will. America has very little popular will to prosecute this war (because it’s stupid and unnecessary and Trump didn’t even try to sell the American public on it), so even relatively minor setbacks or consequences produce outsized popular resentment. It’s also important to note here that Americans don’t meaningfully care about the humanitarian impact of their military’s escapades, so “done more to sway Americans against trump than the knowledge their government is actively killing thousands around the world” isn’t exactly a high bar. Meanwhile, though we can’t know for sure because not much information is coming out of Iran these days, Iran presumably has a lot of popular will to prosecute the war because America and Israel are bombing their schools and hospitals. Would you want your country (presumably America) to surrender if, say, Russia started bombing your country? As long as you have a meaningful avenue of resistance, you’d want to do that until you return the favor to them twice over. That’s exactly what the British thought, so much so that even after losing an order of magnitude more people out of a smaller population in less time than Iran they not only didn’t surrender, they beat back the Germans and went on to fight them in three continents, bankrupting their country, losing their empire in and enduring harsh wartime rationing in the process. As history has repeatedly shown, terror bombing doesn’t work. That’s not a trait of hardened fanatics; that’s just being human.
And of course second, even if the Iranian public wanted to surrender, that doesn’t matter much (unless shit really hits the fan), because the people who would actually make the decision to surrender aren’t the public; they’re the ruling class, who are in a better position to weather the storm than the average Iranian. They’re also likely to very much not want to surrender because it’s their corrupt rule at stake.
The Oriental fanatic to whom life is cheap contrasted with the enlightened and/or decadent white man is a an age-old trope, but put in context it’s not one with a lot of explanatory power.
thanks for the detailed explanation
Iran, or Persia, is many times older than the USA. They figure this too shall pass.
How is that not a war crime in itself?
Because there is no such thing as a war crime. I wish this myth would die already, all it does is placate people into accepting war.
War crimes are definitely a thing. With a long history of definition and, you know, multiple international agreements.
And just as long of a history of them being completely ignored with zero accountability. It just mollifies and tricks unsuspecting soldiers into engaging in more warfare.
You think this is a gotcha?
That’s a completely brain dead take.
If the UN was actually dedicated to peace keeping they’d have arrested his ass for that shit.
The UN is just a forum that allows countries to air their grievances and talk out issues. It’s there to hopefully stop wars before they start. It’s not the world police
Which explains why they’re so shit at it.
I’m tired of winning boss.
I am not my government, nor have i ever felt anything like “patriotism” at any point outside the Olympics, and that’s always as fleeting as whichever event I am watching.
Much as Iranians aren’t their government, Chinese aren’t theirs, etc etc. Despots gonna despot.
And if you think he actually got voted in this most recent time then I’ve got some bridges for sale in Brooklyn for a great price if you’re interested.
ETA: Hard-line religious repressive governments and the CCCP genociding Uyghrs(sp) are what I’m referring to, nothing more.
Also I’m dumb
That’s not how a democracy works. And if you argue against it, then it’s not a democracy any more
In the end, I don’t think the rest of the world believes that this is all down to one person called Trump any more. This is down to the whole population and will require many generations of intentional cultural change to reverse.
The USA is lost to most of its allies, not because of Trump alone but because things there can unpredictably change very dramatically every 4 years
Oh, he got voted in by enough people to make this rapist, childfucking, insurrectionist garbage human president the second time. There is no functioning mechanism to prevent such things or to reverse course when things are obviously fucked, and that is the fault of every american alive, regardless of patriotism. It’s not limited to a single generation either - this shit has been going down since at least Nixon, who got away scot free, and Reagan, who also didn’t suffer any consequences for the Contra affair.
Every American alive - minus Gen Z / Alpha at the moment, but i am sure they will carry the torch on - is part of a system that has been running amok for more than half a century, and was neither willing to consistently vote for representants that respect the rule of law nor demand that the rules are changed in a way to prevent a fascist takeover.
It’s just like with genocide - if you don’t speak out against it, you support it.
Much as Iranians aren’t their government, Chinese aren’t theirs, etc etc. Despots gonna despot.
People on Lemmy need to actually internalize this fact^
Thank you for thinking that way and saying it “out loud”.
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Iran and the US had earlier agreed on a memorandum setting out a pathway towards a permanent settlement. The understanding included demands for the lifting of US oil sanctions, removal of the US naval blockade on Iranian ports, the unfreezing of Iranian assets abroad and an end to fighting on all fronts, including Lebanon. The agreement later unravelled, with both sides accusing each other of violating its terms.
Mohebi said Iran was now seeking the release of the entire $24 billion in frozen Iranian assets upfront, rather than receiving the funds in stages before and during negotiations.
“The issue of Yemen was not on the agenda of the previous agreement. We are now demanding that the lifting of the blockade on Yemen be included in the agreement,” he said.
The issue of Yemen was not on the agenda of the previous agreement. We are now demanding that the lifting of the blockade on Yemen be included in the agreement," he said.
There’s absolutely no way we can outblockade the Houthis…
They live and operate in cave networks that our best bombs can’t get to, and we wasted them already anyways…
They just sit in there making their own drones from raw materials, the only component they need is a gps unit. When their original leader was found, the only way to get him out was fill his tunnel with gas and set it on fire. Every last member is equally willing to die today or live 60 more years in a cave and then die the same way.
Mohebi rejected the suggestion that the Houthis were acting on instructions from Tehran. He said the Houthis “makes its own decisions and does not need to coordinate with us for anything in the world”.
That’s also bullshit, Iran funds and controls multiple groups like the Houthis.
There’s absolutely no way we can outblockade the Houthis…
They’re talking about the blockade of Yemen, which is to say the crime against humanity being committed by Saudi Arabia with Western support for over a decade. Given that the Houthis didn’t starve tens of thousands of children to death or push almost 20 million people (almost two thirds of the whole damn country) into famine I’d say they have been thoroughly outblockaded.
That’s also bullshit, Iran funds and controls multiple groups like the Houthis.
Iran funds them, but doesn’t control them. They’re close allies because they have the same enemies, no mutually exclusive ambitions and similar (but very much not the same) sets of beliefs. Famously Hamas didn’t consult Iran when they launched October 7th.
So it’s going to keep being a war then until the military follows through on the threat?
And then for a while after that too.
The war is spiraling out of control. Europe, China, and Russia should get together and negotiate with Iran. Iran will trust them more.
Russia is too busy attacking Europe and China is weighing up invading Taiwan while everyone is too distracted and short of weapons to do anything about it.
Europe, China and Russia should tell the US to piss off until they’re house-trained
