That’s why I said it depends on whether or not there’s an actual punishment involved. If it’s just a finger wag and a calm “you need to be on time”, I’m not concerned. If the kid’s actually getting in trouble, with associated punishment, then that’s definitely not OK.
Part of life is learning to prepare for the unexpected. A lot of people are frequently late through a combination of circumstances and their own poor preparation. Random events will happen. You will hit an unpredictable traffic snarl. If you plan your schedule with zero margin, then you are failing to plan properly.
This is honestly a very important lesson for kids to learn. If they have a traffic ticket, and they get a court summons, they damn well better be in court, prepared, at the appropriate hour. The judge isn’t going to want to hear your excuse why you’re late. Unless you’re in the hospital, the judge is going to issue a warrant for your arrest. You can shout this is unfair til you’re red in the face, but there are simply times in life where not being on time has very real consequences.
A similar harshness exists for job interviews. If you’re late, forget it. It’s simply your responsibility to plan for the unexpected.
Sure, sometimes people are late purely due to circumstances. Sometimes you’re subject to large unpredictable delays. If a family member needs to be rushed to the hospital, that’s hours you’re going to lose with no way to predict it.
But 99% of the time when people are late, they’re late due to the ordinary everyday hurdles that should simply be planned for. Traffic is not a valid excuse for showing up 10 minutes late. For something important, you should just have a margin that large built into your schedule. Shit happens. And at some point, failing to plan for random but completely expected delays is your fault, not the fault of circumstance.
Everything you are saying in this thread is the exact opposite of what child care experts say. It’s like you went and thought “hmm all these scientists are wrong, so I’ll say the exact opposite”.
Lazy entitled thinking. Blame capitalism and imperialism for every problem. Free yourself from all thought and responsibility.
Sorry, if you’re going to criticize, offer a solution. Because what you’re doing currently is demanding that teachers tear down capitalism.
It’s not teacher’s responsibility to tear down capitalism. If that’s the problem you diagnose, then it has zero relevance to discussion of classroom management strategies.
Because when you say to tell a teacher, “this problem will go away if we just completely reorganize society top to bottom,” you are making clear that you don’t give a shit about teachers.
Look, there is a difference between doing your best in a difficult situation and identifying so much with a system thaf you feel the need to defend it.
Based on the number of adults I’ve met who think that nothing is their fault ever, kids need to at least be introduced to the concept of personal responsibility even in situations not completely in their control.
Planning for predictable but random events is part of your responsibility.
There are many random circumstances that can make a person late. Some are a person’s responsibility to plan for. Some aren’t.
Consider minor traffic delays. If you’re 10 minutes late because of traffic, that’s not traffic’s fault. That’s your fault. A 10 minute traffic delay is not a rare occurrence. You simply shouldn’t be operating your schedule with so little margin that a ten minute delay will make you late to something important. If you don’t have some margin in your schedule, this is entirely your fault. You built a schedule that only works if absolutely everything goes perfectly right, and then you blamed circumstance when the inevitable happens.
Then there are some delays that it’s not reasonable to expect people to plan for. If you’re hours late because you had to rush a family member to a hospital, that’s not your fault. That’s a legitimate emergency. And it’s not reasonable for people to build multi-hour buffers into their daily schedule.
Remember that the context is seven year old kids. Its a downvote worthy comment because children have no licenses or ability to get to school without their parents. Nor do they have the ability to order their parents to leave more time for potential delays
The seven year olds also (ostensibly) aren’t experiencing consequences- they’re just receiving messaging about implicit social expectations. Kids need exposure to the reasoning behind cultural norms before they’re in a position to navigate them independently.
It’s also useful for young people to know that their parents can fall short- and that shitty parenting isn’t the default experience.
Yeah. We all have those friends that are late every single time. Something always happens. In reality, they just fail to plan, leave absolutely zero margin in their schedule, and then blame circumstance when they’re inevitably late.
I’m late for work all the time, my value isn’t that it’s my capability to do my job.
Similarly, the kids are responsible for LEARNING. being driven to school late doesn’t matter until that is impacted, and when it does it’s the issue for the caregivers, not the student.
That’s why I said it depends on whether or not there’s an actual punishment involved. If it’s just a finger wag and a calm “you need to be on time”, I’m not concerned. If the kid’s actually getting in trouble, with associated punishment, then that’s definitely not OK.
Nothing better to prepare for the horrors of the modern world than loading kids with guilt about things beyond their control as early as possible.
Part of life is learning to prepare for the unexpected. A lot of people are frequently late through a combination of circumstances and their own poor preparation. Random events will happen. You will hit an unpredictable traffic snarl. If you plan your schedule with zero margin, then you are failing to plan properly.
This is honestly a very important lesson for kids to learn. If they have a traffic ticket, and they get a court summons, they damn well better be in court, prepared, at the appropriate hour. The judge isn’t going to want to hear your excuse why you’re late. Unless you’re in the hospital, the judge is going to issue a warrant for your arrest. You can shout this is unfair til you’re red in the face, but there are simply times in life where not being on time has very real consequences.
A similar harshness exists for job interviews. If you’re late, forget it. It’s simply your responsibility to plan for the unexpected.
Sure, sometimes people are late purely due to circumstances. Sometimes you’re subject to large unpredictable delays. If a family member needs to be rushed to the hospital, that’s hours you’re going to lose with no way to predict it.
But 99% of the time when people are late, they’re late due to the ordinary everyday hurdles that should simply be planned for. Traffic is not a valid excuse for showing up 10 minutes late. For something important, you should just have a margin that large built into your schedule. Shit happens. And at some point, failing to plan for random but completely expected delays is your fault, not the fault of circumstance.
Everything you are saying in this thread is the exact opposite of what child care experts say. It’s like you went and thought “hmm all these scientists are wrong, so I’ll say the exact opposite”.
Care to cite a paper?
Got it, at farm scale, who cares if a few apples get bruised by the machinery?
How about you offer constructive solutions instead of just criticizing?
Because that is the cry of the oppressor. Give me a solution that works within my framework and existing constraints.
Lazy entitled thinking. Blame capitalism and imperialism for every problem. Free yourself from all thought and responsibility.
Sorry, if you’re going to criticize, offer a solution. Because what you’re doing currently is demanding that teachers tear down capitalism.
It’s not teacher’s responsibility to tear down capitalism. If that’s the problem you diagnose, then it has zero relevance to discussion of classroom management strategies.
Because when you say to tell a teacher, “this problem will go away if we just completely reorganize society top to bottom,” you are making clear that you don’t give a shit about teachers.
Look, there is a difference between doing your best in a difficult situation and identifying so much with a system thaf you feel the need to defend it.
I just get tired of folks who cite utopia as a solution to real-world problems. It’s lazy.
Based on the number of adults I’ve met who think that nothing is their fault ever, kids need to at least be introduced to the concept of personal responsibility even in situations not completely in their control.
“personal responsibility”
“out of their control”
Maybe we should accustom society to holding people responsible for things that are within someone’s control?
Planning for predictable but random events is part of your responsibility.
There are many random circumstances that can make a person late. Some are a person’s responsibility to plan for. Some aren’t.
Consider minor traffic delays. If you’re 10 minutes late because of traffic, that’s not traffic’s fault. That’s your fault. A 10 minute traffic delay is not a rare occurrence. You simply shouldn’t be operating your schedule with so little margin that a ten minute delay will make you late to something important. If you don’t have some margin in your schedule, this is entirely your fault. You built a schedule that only works if absolutely everything goes perfectly right, and then you blamed circumstance when the inevitable happens.
Then there are some delays that it’s not reasonable to expect people to plan for. If you’re hours late because you had to rush a family member to a hospital, that’s not your fault. That’s a legitimate emergency. And it’s not reasonable for people to build multi-hour buffers into their daily schedule.
I know SO MUCH about the people who are downvoting this comment.
Remember that the context is seven year old kids. Its a downvote worthy comment because children have no licenses or ability to get to school without their parents. Nor do they have the ability to order their parents to leave more time for potential delays
The seven year olds also (ostensibly) aren’t experiencing consequences- they’re just receiving messaging about implicit social expectations. Kids need exposure to the reasoning behind cultural norms before they’re in a position to navigate them independently.
It’s also useful for young people to know that their parents can fall short- and that shitty parenting isn’t the default experience.
Yeah. We all have those friends that are late every single time. Something always happens. In reality, they just fail to plan, leave absolutely zero margin in their schedule, and then blame circumstance when they’re inevitably late.
Don’t be changing what I said. I very intentionally didn’t say “out of their control”. I said “not completely in their control”.
For example, if it snows, and the resulting traffic delays make you late for work, is that your responsibility? You don’t control the weather.
As an adult you can be expected to know that there might be snow tomorrow and plan accordingly. What is a kid going to do, other than feel helpless?
I’m late for work all the time, my value isn’t that it’s my capability to do my job.
Similarly, the kids are responsible for LEARNING. being driven to school late doesn’t matter until that is impacted, and when it does it’s the issue for the caregivers, not the student.