Fun fact: the whole notion of Eve being made from one of Adam’s “ribs” is actually a (probably intentional) mistranslation.
In the original Hebrew, Eve is made from one of Adam’s “tsela”, which is a Hebrew word that means “half”. This same word appears dozens more times throughout the Bible, and nowhere else but this one story in Genesis is it ever translated as “rib”.
And of course, if the original author had meant ‘rib’, they could have just written that, because ancient Hebrew had a word for rib: alah.
But if Eve was really made from “half” of Adam, then that puts man and woman on equal footing, and we definitely can’t have that… so later scribes made sure to translate that feature out of the original story.
Enki and Ninhursag https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.1.1&charenc=j
Enki, Sumerian god of water and knowledge, goes around distributing his semen to various goddesses for generations, and attempts to get busy with one who happens to be his great granddaughter, Uttu, after posing as a gardener. Ninhursag, the mother goddess of mountains, says no and takes out the semen from wherever he splashed it, then plants it in the ground. Various fruits, trees, vegetable, grass, plants grow from the place she planted it, and Enki eats them - to know what they are and determine their destiny because that’s what he does as the god of knowledge. No kinkshaming.
Shortly after, Enki feels pain all over his body. Ninhursag asks where it hurts, and it turns out the pain comes from the plants and basically the semen is spreading inside his body. The top of his head hurt, Ninhursag removes the source of the pain which gives birth to a god of vegetation; a lock of hair, his nose, his mouth, throat, arm… give birth to multiple goddesses like Ninkasi goddess of beer, Nanshe goddess of the sea.
And then his rib hurts, and Ninhursag gives birth to Ninti out of it. Ninti translates to lady of life / lady who gives life, but it’s believed that this part is a play on words that would mean lady of the rib. The Eve of Hebrew myth is thought to have been inspired by Ninti.
I don’t know about versions of biblical texts, but the tradition that Eve came from a rib may come from people who were aware that this story was derived from Enki and Ninhursag. This myth involves a garden and stuff associated with the land of Dilmun, which was at some point connected to Eden. Plus Adam as a gardener eating the fruit to gain knowledge. Adam eats the seed of the apple but more like his own seed.
But if Eve was really made from “half” of Adam, then that puts man and woman on equal footing
Does it though? It’s literally saying that women exist because of men. Just another reason to make them subservient.
The idea behind that theory that the woman was one half suggests that prior to the split, it was one being who was half male and half female, not one man from whom woman was created. Also, that being was the one made in the image of God.
It makes some people angry.
But Genesis 3:16 seemingly has God setting man above woman, so a Christian could just use that instead.
To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
I suppose you could argue it only applies to a husband and wife, or possibly even just Adam and Eve specifically, but that seems unlikely given the first part applies to women as a whole.
There’s also Timothy 2:11-13, and Christians tend to hold the new testament in high regard.
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
(from the NIV for both)
So it seems like the Bible explicitly has God himself commanding sexism, rather than it needing to be inferred from symbolism.
A couple of things:
To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
This is God’s response to Eve eating the forbidden fruit. Old Testament God is a petty asshole who likes to spank his kids when they misbehave, but this is all about something Eve did, not something that Eve is. Nothing in the Genesis story suggests that women were made a priori to have less dignity or less value than men, and God frequently punishes men in the Old Testament as well.
As for the Timothy stuff, that all comes from Paul the apostle. You didn’t ever find Jesus saying these things about women, it’s just Paul being an incel.
Old TestamentGod is a petty assholeAt least old Testament God was straight up about being an arsehole. People are pretending like sending people to hell for eternity because you had the audacity to grow up not in a Christian household, isn’t straight up narcissistic behaviour.
Believe in me with no evidence, otherwise I’m damning you for all time. Even if I’m the one who let you be born into a particular region or family.
If God were a person, he’d have no friends.
(Just me being salty)
The tree of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? The one that teaches you good and evil when you eat it (meaning you don’t have that understanding prior)? That one? Makes so much sense.
this is all about something Eve did, not something that Eve is.
Except the first sentence applies to all mothers who ever were. It is literally about what women are. Mr Omnipotent couldn’t figure out how to punish Eve without punishing all her daughters throughout all eternity? The mental acrobatics required to not interpret that verse as a call to sexism are olympics-level.
I don’t actually have a vested interest in doing the mental gymnastics either way. But I do find it fascinating how deeply knowledgeable and creative some people get in order to pretend that the Bible is actually woke lmao.
Mr Omnipotent couldn’t figure out how to punish Eve without punishing all her daughters throughout all eternity?
Exactly. So much bizarre, convoluted shit in the Bible (including the entire scheme of sending himself to earth as a human to become a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. Sin, and the idea of sacrifice to clean it, are themselves a concept entirely invented by god, but whatever) makes no sense in the context of an omnipotent god.
Just do the fucking thing.
He loves me, but he doomed me from birth to spend an eternity in torture? Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.
Many scholars believe Paul didn’t even write Timothy.
I wonder how religious people reconcile their beliefs with things like this. Are the mistranslations interventions from God too?
A mistranslation isn’t an intervention from God, they exist because humans (and the Bible) aren’t infallible. The Bible is a document made by hundreds of authors over hundreds of years leading to countless interpretations- this is why theologians exist, this is why there are different sects of Jews and Christians, etc.
The story of Adam and Eve is another example of the patriarchy as represented in the Bible. But the two of them are also described as being of “one body”- one cannot exist without the other- which implies some equality. It’s a contradictory statement and the Bible is full of them.
Many theologians would also argue that contradictions like this aren’t a mistake. God is a being beyond human comprehension, and his message can’t be written down one to one. An overarching theme of the Bible is that the only way to come close to God and find his message is through other people. You have to go out there and love your neighbor.
If we take the family structure presented in the bible literally. The woman is subservient to the man in marriage, but the man is also supposed to give the entirety of himself to his wife. Making a scenario where the wife is serving the husband and the husband is always working to improve the life of the wife.
Yeah I really want to see like a queer theologians perspective on this idea though. The Bible talks a lot about man and woman and how they have to be together, but I wonder how you apply this to modern day. My gut response is that when the Bible was being written, the idea of gender and long-term non hetero relationships weren’t a thing. But I know there had to have been some people nonconforming to gender even if they weren’t explicitly thinking along those lines and some sort of non-hetero relationships that went beyond married men having boy lovers.
The short answer is you don’t. Leviticus says you shall not lay with a man as you lay with a woman, usually interpreted as marriage. Corinthians takes it a little farther by saying all homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.
They don’t. They just learn to live with the cognitive dissonance.
Which is why they are so primed for fascism.
So what you’re saying is alien manipulation of the human genome staring with Adam and the mitochondrial Eve: confirmed?
And that they also left the chimp part of our brains that makes us xenophobic sexist assholes?
That would explain why Abel was only around for a limited time.
That and he was banging his mom
Sooooo… following this logic… we’re all McRibs?
We’re all McRibs on this glorious day
Speak for yourself
I’m a McRib on this glorious day!
Is that you, Ken M?
I’m actually for realsies Ken M. Behold my satire: poop.
I vote this comment most internet of the day.
No, only i am mcribbed, as ordained by the std ministers and the holy Protestant church
OK, I’m OK with that… my star sign is frying pan with adjutant Kiwi.
My granpappy always told me: “Harvey, if you ever meet someone with a star sign that has a frying pan in it, do not under any circumstance, give them 5 dollars.”
I prefer Euros 😁
Ah sorry, I don’t speak French.
Bassd scho!
Isn’t that Bavarian?
Mc is Scottish. The Irish use O’
Both are Irish. Ó means “of” or “from”, and sometimes is interpreted as a looser association with a clann (family).
Scottish is Irish. Gaelic peoples settled Western Scotland from Ireland. Literally the word “Scot” used to mean “Irish”.
Try telling a republican that the Irish are imperialist colonisers who pushed out the Picts and Britons, and watch their mind explode and the rage spew forth. It’s good craic if you find the right people to try it with!
For more info on how the Irish and Scotland are intertwined check out this playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfJ_hYioDtXSHxZdtSHHOIa02r3MZSGAU
I mean these were quite literally nomadic cow-herding tribes acting independently and frequently fighting each other even across the sea so “imperial” is a bit rich.
Probably a much better comparison to the Vikings who did something similar: individual gangs raided British coastlines and then eventually began to settle there. Except the Gaels/Scotii did it during Roman times, the Vikings later.
Wow cool, you did it.
https://www.houseofnames.com/blogs/mac-prefix At least according to this it’s used by both cultures
Always wondered why there were Mc and Mac.
Now Maclaghlan makes more sense to me.
McABitch!
McRibs ? Who ?
But the Bible is patriarchal, they wouldn’t be named for their mother
Don’t go questioning their fiction now. You could run the risk of being seen as a critical thinker with intelligence.
That’s like, too much text for me to handle
I forgot the beginning when I got half way and just gave up 😔
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