Yes, slaves are super convenient. No one ever said that slaves aren’t nice to have, dude. YOUR experience is not the fucking point.
There is no way to create a creature for the express purpose of exploitation that is okay. There is no way to create a creature with the intention of forcing it into a state of total dependence that is not actually evil.
You realize putting googly eyes on a toaster doesn’t give it feelings, right?
Assigning human values and desires to non-humans is not a coherent philosophy or ethical position.
Animals “Exploit” each other throughout the animal kingdom. Ants Literally farm aphids by protecting and herding them in exchange for what they produce. How is this wildly different from keeping a cow or a goat for milk?
Is the cow version evil because we’re humans, but the ant version okay because they aren’t?
Because that’s just making rules based on your desired outcome, not reason.
Yes! Good on you for noticing the speciesism that racism is built on! If non-human animals have less worth than humans then liking some humans to non-human animals means they have less worth. The issue is at the very start, that
a) non-human animal and human are a meaningful distinction
b) non-humans have inherently less worth than humans
Slavers do that because they think other Animals are worth nothing and want to say Human Slaves are also worth nothing.
Here quite the opposite is done. All Animals have a Worth. Every living being has the same worth. Modern Science says that Humans are also Animals.
If you still think its something only a Slaver would say then in your head other animals probably have no worth at all. So you think someone else wants to degrade humans with that comparison. Even tho its not degrading at all. You just think less of other animals, and you probably deny the science that Humans are Animals. Which is the reason why @Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org says you sound like a “human supremacist”
But that we can’t objectively say what kind of worth something has is pretty much the point.
How can you say that only humans have worth but other animals do not? What gives you the right to say that you’re better than a pig, a cat, or any other animal?
Some humans even do the same with their own kind and say that women have less worth or that someone with another skin color has less worth.
I hope you agree with me that a white person has no right to decide if someone else has more or less worth than them.
So why does a human have this right over other animals? What gave humans this right?
This is not about personal worth in something like a friendship. Obviously your best friend is more worth to you then a stranger. Obviously your own cat is more worth to you then a stranger cat.
But in general worth, you would probably also be angry if millions of stranger humans would be slaughtered, right? You are probably against Genocide, right? Even tho you don’t know these humans.
Just trying to find a baseline. If you’re not even against these things when talking about Humans, then you probably have other problems.
But in general worth, you would probably also be angry if millions of stranger humans would be slaughtered, right? You are probably against Genocide, right? Even tho you don’t know these humans.
none of this has to do with “worth”. i can be opposed to genocide and mass slaughter without trying to quantify the value of people.
Stop Spamming me and respond in one single Comment man. Is this your first time on a social media platform. How old are you. Maybe you’re way to young to even argue to.
No you are spamming me. This makes it really hard to communicate with you.
You make a own comment for every half thought. This way a discussion on this platform is really stupid.
And the follow up was a actual question. Not tried to insult. I actually think you are probably a child the way you comment, not an insult, it just actually looks like that. So I’m sorry, I will not communicate with you anymore. This is really weird how you write.
I ignored the point you made, no matter if its correct or not, because I don’t discuss someone who is probably to young to even understand.
Have a nice day.
Some humans even do the same with their own kind and say that women have less worth or that someone with another skin color has less worth. I hope you agree with me that a white person has no right to decide if someone else has more or less worth than them. So why does a human have this right over other animals? What gave humans this right?
i don’t believe in rights, at all. they’re a european fiction.
Well I concluded that because you didn’t deny that in the previous comment. I tried to make clear why you were called a “human supremacist”. I tried to understand why you think that comparing slaves to animals is only something slave owners do.
First, this is denying of Science. Humans are in fact also Animals.
So I thought, if you think only Slave owners say that, you probably deny that and think your self that animals are much less worth then humans, because you see it a comparison as degrading.
This way it would make sense why you think only slave owners would say that. And you didn’t deny it, so went with it in the next comment.
If you actually do not think that you are more worthy then other animals, then you need to explain your first comment. From what viewpoint are you looking that you thought this comparison is something only slavers are doing. Maybe we just have a misunderstanding.
Edit:
Ok the “child” was not needed. Sorry, for acctually using that as an insult. I did that because in the other comment you thought its one, where it was acctually still not one. This was not right.
But:
Me: Maybe we have a missunderstanding. Lets clear things up
Him: you have a problem
How more clear wants a ragebaiter and troll to be, that he is not at all interested in a talk.
no. no one is advocating that pigs be allowed to vote, get healthcare, or education. they’re obviously different, and treating them differently is necessary for right behavior
Cool, so what is the difference that makes it ok to exploit and kill pigs for taste pleasure, that if applied to a human would also make it okay to exploit and kill them for taste pleasure?
ah, the old “name the trait” line of argument. lets just skip to the end here: the ntt argument is just an elaborate line-drawing fallacy (also called a spectrum fallacy). the inability to identify the single trait, or sum of traits, which distinguish one end of the spectrum from the other does not mean that each end of the spectrum is the same. pigs are not people. qed
I would argue that animal husbandry is a symbiotic relationship rather than simple exploitation. While we gain resources, animals receive guaranteed food, protection from predators, and medical care that they would otherwise lack in the wild. Overall, the life with humans is better for the animals from a survival standpoint. Mind you, I’m only talking about animal husbandry on a smaller scale, not those disgusting meat factories as seen in the image above.
And before you drop the “How can a relationship be symbiotic if the animal has no choice in its dependence?” question that I’ve heard so many times before: Symbiosis is defined by mutual benefit instead of autonomy. Many biological partnerships happen without conscious choice, such as the relationship between fungi and algae in lichens, or ants and the small things they herd (forgot what they are called in english lmao). The lack of choice is offset by a massive increase in survival rates and resource stability compared to life in the wild.
Yes, slaves are super convenient. No one ever said that slaves aren’t nice to have, dude. YOUR experience is not the fucking point.
There is no way to create a creature for the express purpose of exploitation that is okay. There is no way to create a creature with the intention of forcing it into a state of total dependence that is not actually evil.
You realize putting googly eyes on a toaster doesn’t give it feelings, right?
Assigning human values and desires to non-humans is not a coherent philosophy or ethical position.
Animals “Exploit” each other throughout the animal kingdom. Ants Literally farm aphids by protecting and herding them in exchange for what they produce. How is this wildly different from keeping a cow or a goat for milk?
Is the cow version evil because we’re humans, but the ant version okay because they aren’t?
Because that’s just making rules based on your desired outcome, not reason.
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do
Yes! Good on you for noticing the speciesism that racism is built on! If non-human animals have less worth than humans then liking some humans to non-human animals means they have less worth. The issue is at the very start, that
a) non-human animal and human are a meaningful distinction
b) non-humans have inherently less worth than humans
speciesism is necessary. racism is bad.
Slavers do that because they think other Animals are worth nothing and want to say Human Slaves are also worth nothing.
Here quite the opposite is done. All Animals have a Worth. Every living being has the same worth. Modern Science says that Humans are also Animals.
If you still think its something only a Slaver would say then in your head other animals probably have no worth at all. So you think someone else wants to degrade humans with that comparison. Even tho its not degrading at all. You just think less of other animals, and you probably deny the science that Humans are Animals. Which is the reason why @Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org says you sound like a “human supremacist”
if this were true then harvesting grain or chopping down a tree or using hand sanitizer would be murder.
value is subjective. this is not an objective fact.
But that we can’t objectively say what kind of worth something has is pretty much the point.
How can you say that only humans have worth but other animals do not? What gives you the right to say that you’re better than a pig, a cat, or any other animal? Some humans even do the same with their own kind and say that women have less worth or that someone with another skin color has less worth. I hope you agree with me that a white person has no right to decide if someone else has more or less worth than them. So why does a human have this right over other animals? What gave humans this right?
This is not about personal worth in something like a friendship. Obviously your best friend is more worth to you then a stranger. Obviously your own cat is more worth to you then a stranger cat. But in general worth, you would probably also be angry if millions of stranger humans would be slaughtered, right? You are probably against Genocide, right? Even tho you don’t know these humans.
Just trying to find a baseline. If you’re not even against these things when talking about Humans, then you probably have other problems.
none of this has to do with “worth”. i can be opposed to genocide and mass slaughter without trying to quantify the value of people.
Stop Spamming me and respond in one single Comment man. Is this your first time on a social media platform. How old are you. Maybe you’re way to young to even argue to.
this is just rhetoric, now. you’re complaining about my form, and following up with an ad hominem.
what i’ve said is true.
No you are spamming me. This makes it really hard to communicate with you. You make a own comment for every half thought. This way a discussion on this platform is really stupid.
And the follow up was a actual question. Not tried to insult. I actually think you are probably a child the way you comment, not an insult, it just actually looks like that. So I’m sorry, I will not communicate with you anymore. This is really weird how you write.
I ignored the point you made, no matter if its correct or not, because I don’t discuss someone who is probably to young to even understand. Have a nice day.
i don’t believe in rights, at all. they’re a european fiction.
i didn’t
i didn’t
Well I concluded that because you didn’t deny that in the previous comment. I tried to make clear why you were called a “human supremacist”. I tried to understand why you think that comparing slaves to animals is only something slave owners do.
First, this is denying of Science. Humans are in fact also Animals. So I thought, if you think only Slave owners say that, you probably deny that and think your self that animals are much less worth then humans, because you see it a comparison as degrading. This way it would make sense why you think only slave owners would say that. And you didn’t deny it, so went with it in the next comment.
If you actually do not think that you are more worthy then other animals, then you need to explain your first comment. From what viewpoint are you looking that you thought this comparison is something only slavers are doing. Maybe we just have a misunderstanding.
you have a reading comprehension problem. if you just read what i’ve written, you’ll see i’m not saying the same things you are saying i’ve written.
ok, ragebait child
Edit: Ok the “child” was not needed. Sorry, for acctually using that as an insult. I did that because in the other comment you thought its one, where it was acctually still not one. This was not right.
But:
Me: Maybe we have a missunderstanding. Lets clear things up
Him: you have a problem
How more clear wants a ragebaiter and troll to be, that he is not at all interested in a talk.
so, I’m still out. Bye
Talking like that is what human supremacists do.
it’s not about supremacy. it’s about treating different things differently.
Like white people and black people?
no. no one is advocating that pigs be allowed to vote, get healthcare, or education. they’re obviously different, and treating them differently is necessary for right behavior
killing them is “right behavior”?
it’s amoral
Cool, so what is the difference that makes it ok to exploit and kill pigs for taste pleasure, that if applied to a human would also make it okay to exploit and kill them for taste pleasure?
ah, the old “name the trait” line of argument. lets just skip to the end here: the ntt argument is just an elaborate line-drawing fallacy (also called a spectrum fallacy). the inability to identify the single trait, or sum of traits, which distinguish one end of the spectrum from the other does not mean that each end of the spectrum is the same. pigs are not people. qed
It’s not lol you just don’t have an answer. You could at least be honest enough to say that.
no one says they’re killing pigs for “taste pleasure”. most are simply killed for profit, and some are killedfor food.
I would argue that animal husbandry is a symbiotic relationship rather than simple exploitation. While we gain resources, animals receive guaranteed food, protection from predators, and medical care that they would otherwise lack in the wild. Overall, the life with humans is better for the animals from a survival standpoint. Mind you, I’m only talking about animal husbandry on a smaller scale, not those disgusting meat factories as seen in the image above.
And before you drop the “How can a relationship be symbiotic if the animal has no choice in its dependence?” question that I’ve heard so many times before: Symbiosis is defined by mutual benefit instead of autonomy. Many biological partnerships happen without conscious choice, such as the relationship between fungi and algae in lichens, or ants and the small things they herd (forgot what they are called in english lmao). The lack of choice is offset by a massive increase in survival rates and resource stability compared to life in the wild.