Hardware and OS are there, and that’s a solid foundation to build on. A proper software ecosystem is still required to make the phone a viable daily driver.
For example, how do I use public transport if my phone isn’t compatible with the app? Should I just start carrying a physical card with me like it’s 2005? What about when I buy and sell used stuff, and everyone is using a local payment app that only runs on iOS and Android? Maybe I’ll just use cash like it’s the 1980s. The more you look, the more problems you’ll find.
Now don’t get me wrong, I would love to ditch American big tech today, but the alternative needs to be viable. Even barely viable would do.
You are still in the first stage of privacy, I am completely degoogled, only pay cash, soon I will go offgrid with reticulum and meshcore. Will never return to the old days with google
Why do you think everything has to be on your phone? If it breaks, you loose access to everything. What’s so bad about it to carry a plastic credit card with you? It doesn’t need to be charged, it is very light and thin and just works. Old doesn’t mean bad. The modern tech company driven life is actually bad.
What I’m aiming for is best of the both worlds. A fully FOSS payment system would be convenient and severed from big tech. Cards are still fine since they are so reliable, but they are less convenient.
You’re not carrying around a dedicated camera, GPS, address book and an alarm clock, now are you. Granted, cards take less space and weigh next to nothing, but they are still extra clutter I would need to keep track of. The mobile phone has swallowed other bits of technology over the past 20 years, and there’s good reason for that. It’s just so convenient and the downsides are tolerable.
Well, apart from the privacy part. That’s intolerable, and now we’re stuck with Apple and Google because of consistently choosing convenience over everything else.
It has some pros and cons. It works everywhere in most places and it respects your privacy. On the other hand, it’s less convenient compared to electronic alternatives. I haven’t carried a wallet in my pocket for many years because I’ve switched to more convenient alternatives.
Where do you live where using cash for second hand purchase is unusual? I get how cash dependent Germany is but I would never buy or sell something with anything other than cash
I wish I could tell you. Let’s just say that there’s a mobile app that can send money to other people in a very easy and convenient way. Everyone uses it here. Trying to resist the change is only going to make your life unnecessarily difficult.
Yeah, it works reliably on a Oneplus 6T with Phosh.
Everything works, I thought I’d have to rely on waydroid a lot, but I’ve managed to find native alternatives or web apps that work fine. So waydroid just sits there unused in case one day I need some android app for an event or something.
That said, it’s not ready for a normie user yet, due to lack of apps and general polish. Also the camera, while it works, lacks autofocus and the quality is pretty bad, you can use it to read QRs at least.
Just tried the website. It literally tells me to use the app for buying tickets, LOL. Oh, and the website doesn’t even have that feature, so it’s either a paper ticket, physical transit pass or phone. I prefer to use a phone, because I’m going to be carrying that with me anyway. The other options would be extra I can’t be bothered with.
You can run Android apps via Waydroid. And there are ways to run the apps seamlesly, without needing to open waydroid -Droidian does this for example (I had unfortunately some tech issues with Droidian so didn’t test it much.
The already mentioned SailfishOS should have something that allows seamless Android app integration as well.
There is still the issue of some apps not working on deGoogled Android though, Waydroid basically runs LineageOS if I’m not mistaken. I assume microG would be possible but I have yet to try it.
On paper, it sounds great. Last I checked, there were some issues though.
Google is constantly making that harder. For example, people running GrapheneOS are facing more issues every year. This doesn’t seem like a long term solution. More like a temporary workaround.
Some android apps on Sailfish OS and GrapheneOS don’t work properly, because the app knows it’s not in a vanilla Android environment.
So, if you want to use your favorite calculator on Sailfish OS or GrapheneOS, it’s probably fine. If you want to use a banking app in order to verify your identity to the tax office, it might not work at all, because those apps tend to be very picky. Also, you’ll need the same verification thing when interacting with other government agencies, so this isn’t just a fun little bonus either. Come to think of it, any office or company that asks for your ID is on this list.
BTW, the bank I use announced a few years ago that they will start phasing out physical code booklets. Good luck living in the 2020s if you still rely on tech from the 1990s. If only we had GrapheneOS or Saislifhs OS in 2005, it would have been awesome. The problem is, the world has moved on.
You are right. Though it’s not entirely on Google, but also on whoever develops/publishes the app. It can be done without reliance on Google, it’s just easier to use their stuff aa a crutch (at least that’s what I’ve been told.
I use GrapheneOS (with their sandboxed Google Play) and I had minimal issues. On completely degoogled one there was more issues, but something that could be worked around. I imagine with microG it would be smoother (Graphene doesn’t allow it so I couldn’t test).
It is harder than stock Android for sure but I’ll be damned if I just give up. It’s now a matter of principle for me now.
And yes, Linux will be likely even harder but I’m considering it for my next step at this point - exactly because Google is making it harder on Androids and I feel like if you want to really escape their data-hungry fingers you just need to get out of their reach as much as possible. And while there isn’t the same ecosystem available as Android has, there are workarounds for now.
The way I see it, a fully Linux phone would be the next obvious step. If EU want’s to ditch American Big Tech properly, you need to run Linux with no ties to Android or Google at all. This means that you need to have native Linux apps for doing all the basic necessities of modern life. Either that, or the necessities need to function properly as a website, better yet, a web app.
Anyway, I would like to hear more about your experiences with GrapheneOS. Which types of apps had issues?
I had an issue with one banking app, but that might be because I had the second degoogled user going at that time as I tried to see how some of my apps worked that didn’t have any data on if they work or not.
I also had issues with a game called Root, Play store suddenly said it was not compatible but I installed via Aurora while spoifing a different phone and it continues to work fine.
There were some minor hiccups on some apps that were fixed by disabling some exploit protections built into Graphene (a simple Exploit protection compatibility mode toggle in the app settings).
Overall I’m really happy and if I wasn’t concerned about Google further closing down the Android ecosystem, I wouldn’t be considering switching. I never had a situation where I thought I’d be better off on stock Android
On waydroid there’s even an option to download a version of Lineage with full on google apps, haven’t tried it because I don’t use them. But the Google integrity api will always be a problem for any app that requires it
Hardware and OS are there, and that’s a solid foundation to build on. A proper software ecosystem is still required to make the phone a viable daily driver.
For example, how do I use public transport if my phone isn’t compatible with the app? Should I just start carrying a physical card with me like it’s 2005? What about when I buy and sell used stuff, and everyone is using a local payment app that only runs on iOS and Android? Maybe I’ll just use cash like it’s the 1980s. The more you look, the more problems you’ll find.
Now don’t get me wrong, I would love to ditch American big tech today, but the alternative needs to be viable. Even barely viable would do.
You are still in the first stage of privacy, I am completely degoogled, only pay cash, soon I will go offgrid with reticulum and meshcore. Will never return to the old days with google
Why do you think everything has to be on your phone? If it breaks, you loose access to everything. What’s so bad about it to carry a plastic credit card with you? It doesn’t need to be charged, it is very light and thin and just works. Old doesn’t mean bad. The modern tech company driven life is actually bad.
What I’m aiming for is best of the both worlds. A fully FOSS payment system would be convenient and severed from big tech. Cards are still fine since they are so reliable, but they are less convenient.
You’re not carrying around a dedicated camera, GPS, address book and an alarm clock, now are you. Granted, cards take less space and weigh next to nothing, but they are still extra clutter I would need to keep track of. The mobile phone has swallowed other bits of technology over the past 20 years, and there’s good reason for that. It’s just so convenient and the downsides are tolerable.
Well, apart from the privacy part. That’s intolerable, and now we’re stuck with Apple and Google because of consistently choosing convenience over everything else.
Cash is not so bad.
It has some pros and cons. It works
everywherein most places and it respects your privacy. On the other hand, it’s less convenient compared to electronic alternatives. I haven’t carried a wallet in my pocket for many years because I’ve switched to more convenient alternatives.Where do you live where using cash for second hand purchase is unusual? I get how cash dependent Germany is but I would never buy or sell something with anything other than cash
I wish I could tell you. Let’s just say that there’s a mobile app that can send money to other people in a very easy and convenient way. Everyone uses it here. Trying to resist the change is only going to make your life unnecessarily difficult.
I mean honestly, (we’re in America and)
yeah, we carry a physical transit card, it’s WAY less hassle than dealing with a phone.
And yeah we use cash when buying used stuff. Hell, a lot of craigslist listings say “cash only please”! Works fine.
– Frost
What’s the hassle with a phone? Don’t you carry a phone with you everywhere anyway?
No, and as time goes on I’m leaving the house more and more often without that shit. Give me a physical ticket and some cash any day!
Web Apps work great, and as has been mentioned, you can run android apps through waydroid.
Writing this from a postmarketOS linux phone which I’ve been daily driving for a couple of weeks already.
Woah, that works reliably? Have you hit any major issues so far?
Yeah, it works reliably on a Oneplus 6T with Phosh.
Everything works, I thought I’d have to rely on waydroid a lot, but I’ve managed to find native alternatives or web apps that work fine. So waydroid just sits there unused in case one day I need some android app for an event or something.
That said, it’s not ready for a normie user yet, due to lack of apps and general polish. Also the camera, while it works, lacks autofocus and the quality is pretty bad, you can use it to read QRs at least.
Thanks for the update. Looks like things are moving in the right direction.
For public transit, you use the website. Or make a link to it as a sort of ‘app’.
For public transit I myself do use a pass, yeah. I prefer it above Google and Apple Pay, so I’m not bound to them. You usually can also pay by card.
Just tried the website. It literally tells me to use the app for buying tickets, LOL. Oh, and the website doesn’t even have that feature, so it’s either a paper ticket, physical transit pass or phone. I prefer to use a phone, because I’m going to be carrying that with me anyway. The other options would be extra I can’t be bothered with.
You can run Android apps via Waydroid. And there are ways to run the apps seamlesly, without needing to open waydroid -Droidian does this for example (I had unfortunately some tech issues with Droidian so didn’t test it much.
The already mentioned SailfishOS should have something that allows seamless Android app integration as well.
There is still the issue of some apps not working on deGoogled Android though, Waydroid basically runs LineageOS if I’m not mistaken. I assume microG would be possible but I have yet to try it.
On paper, it sounds great. Last I checked, there were some issues though.
So, if you want to use your favorite calculator on Sailfish OS or GrapheneOS, it’s probably fine. If you want to use a banking app in order to verify your identity to the tax office, it might not work at all, because those apps tend to be very picky. Also, you’ll need the same verification thing when interacting with other government agencies, so this isn’t just a fun little bonus either. Come to think of it, any office or company that asks for your ID is on this list.
BTW, the bank I use announced a few years ago that they will start phasing out physical code booklets. Good luck living in the 2020s if you still rely on tech from the 1990s. If only we had GrapheneOS or Saislifhs OS in 2005, it would have been awesome. The problem is, the world has moved on.
You are right. Though it’s not entirely on Google, but also on whoever develops/publishes the app. It can be done without reliance on Google, it’s just easier to use their stuff aa a crutch (at least that’s what I’ve been told.
I use GrapheneOS (with their sandboxed Google Play) and I had minimal issues. On completely degoogled one there was more issues, but something that could be worked around. I imagine with microG it would be smoother (Graphene doesn’t allow it so I couldn’t test).
It is harder than stock Android for sure but I’ll be damned if I just give up. It’s now a matter of principle for me now.
And yes, Linux will be likely even harder but I’m considering it for my next step at this point - exactly because Google is making it harder on Androids and I feel like if you want to really escape their data-hungry fingers you just need to get out of their reach as much as possible. And while there isn’t the same ecosystem available as Android has, there are workarounds for now.
The way I see it, a fully Linux phone would be the next obvious step. If EU want’s to ditch American Big Tech properly, you need to run Linux with no ties to Android or Google at all. This means that you need to have native Linux apps for doing all the basic necessities of modern life. Either that, or the necessities need to function properly as a website, better yet, a web app.
Anyway, I would like to hear more about your experiences with GrapheneOS. Which types of apps had issues?
I had an issue with one banking app, but that might be because I had the second degoogled user going at that time as I tried to see how some of my apps worked that didn’t have any data on if they work or not.
I also had issues with a game called Root, Play store suddenly said it was not compatible but I installed via Aurora while spoifing a different phone and it continues to work fine.
There were some minor hiccups on some apps that were fixed by disabling some exploit protections built into Graphene (a simple Exploit protection compatibility mode toggle in the app settings).
Overall I’m really happy and if I wasn’t concerned about Google further closing down the Android ecosystem, I wouldn’t be considering switching. I never had a situation where I thought I’d be better off on stock Android
On waydroid there’s even an option to download a version of Lineage with full on google apps, haven’t tried it because I don’t use them. But the Google integrity api will always be a problem for any app that requires it
I use a physical card and keep a switched off iPhone with me in case.
You can’t avoid sacrifice, you only get the choice of where it comes from.
Yeah, that’s true. There will be sacrifices either way.