• Rioting Pacifist@lemmy.world
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      17 hours ago

      Spain, Korea, Ukraine, the Soviets.

      Any attempt at putting the workers in charge instead of the state is met with violence.

      It’s not controlled in the sense that capitalist control them, it’s just controlled in the sense that the state requires private property & structurally state-capitalism is closer to liberal-capitalism, so you get less pushback from the cops, bureaucrats, bosses & other assorted middle managers that still get to live off labor of the workers.

      • GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca
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        3 hours ago

        I figured you’d mention Spain, but I’m not sure what you’re referring to in Korea. It was the Americans and South Koreans putting down workers uprisings there. As for Spain, the Anarchists weren’t ever going to manage to beat the Nationalists.

        What you’re failing to understand is that in the context of imperialism, and the imperial boot, such decentralized anti-authoritarian revolutions are impossible. That’s why none of them ever worked, while all the revolutions that succeeded had to take measures to ensure their survival. Look at Poland and Solidarnosc - an anti-authoritarian labour movement, ergo a good thing, right? Except the result wasn’t liberation or socialism, but another loyal member of the imperial core, happy to help keep the boot of capital on the necks of the world proletariat.

        If you guys ever manage to get off the ground and get a workers’ federation going, I’ll be the first to support you, and if you have to make a secret police to suppress the counterrevolutionaries, I’ll keep my atodasos to a minimum. In the meanwhile, Marxism-Leninism is the only thing that’s ever worked.

        • Rioting Pacifist@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Man pick up a history book, you might learn something.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People's_Association_in_Manchuria

          As for Spain, the Anarchists weren’t ever going to manage to beat the Nationalists.

          Lol, as if the betrayal by the USSR didn’t decimate both the troops and their moral.

          Except the result wasn’t liberation or socialism, but another loyal member of the imperial core, happy to help keep the boot of capital on the necks of the world proletariat.

          Lol, it was just switching one imperialist capitalist boot for another. You have to be real stupid to consider the USSRs treatment of Eastern Europe as anything but imperialism.

          Or it’s treatment of workers as anything but capitalism, just capitalism managed by the state.

          Marxism-Leninism is the only thing that’s ever worked.

          🤣🤣🤣

          Yeah China will be socialist any day now 🤣🤣🤣

          Why isn’t the USSR on any maps anymore?

          How come Vietnam is liberalizing?

          • Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
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            2 hours ago

            Some good points, but your inappropriate “lols” and hysterically laughing emojis are tiresome, especially considering the topic

          • GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca
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            2 hours ago

            The USSR’s treatment of eastern Europe was characterized by a net outflow of resources from the USSR to the Warsaw Pact, and within the USSR from the RFSFR to the other SSRs. In fact, a large part of the dissolution of the USSR was that Russian nationalists didn’t want to share that wealth. This was very, very different from capitalist imperialism in which wealth is extracted from the periphery.

            Once again, I ask you what libertarian socialists have ever achieved. Have they ever acted as a geopolitical counterbalance to the US? Did they beat the nazis? Did they ever raise the literacy rates and raise the workers and peasants out of poverty? No, because they’ve only ever controlled a small region within one country during a civil war, and usually ended up losing. Come back to me with some concrete achievements, otherwise you’re just a useful idiot for imperialism.

            • Rioting Pacifist@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              Did they ever raise the literacy rates and raise the workers and peasants out of poverty?

              Litterally yes, not just in Spain, but also in Korea & Ukraine then the MLs betrayed them and gave the farms back to the owners, because authoritarian “socialism” only exists to replace capitalist oppression with state regulated capitalist oppression, because it’s more paletable to the capitalist class, that’s why they’re happy to collaborate with them, to put down any sort of independent worker movement.

              • GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca
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                54 minutes ago

                I would be interested in the example in Korea in particular, I had never heard of this.