If gym bros were philosophically opposed to hyper processed foods, whey protein (and all sorts of other animal-derived protein supplements) wouldn’t be as popular as they are. Whey used to be a nearly free byproduct of the dairy industry, and now is instead a key ingredient in supplement powders and bars and also processed food manufacturing for high protein versions of things like waffles and coffee drinks and even candy.
I’m a pretty serious lifter and I get most of my protein from a combination of legumes (probably 3-6 servings per day), processed dairy like cheeses and yogurts (probably 4-6 servings per day), and grains (probably 5-10 servings per day). I eat meat almost every day, but the actual macronutrient profile of my daily intake shows that most of my protein is coming from non-meat sources.
Hell, a typical hot dog on a bun has half of its protein in the bun (about 5g) and half the protein in the hot dog (about 5g).
It’s not hard to get enough protein from plant sources. Almost every civilization in history was build around a staple grain and a staple legume, which generally provides sufficient protein to cover people’s needs. If you’re trying to do more, like lift heavy weights, meat makes it somewhat easier to satisfy the higher protein requirements, but industrial processing is really the cheat code, whether we’re talking dairy or isolated protein from crops.
Right I conceded this point elsewhere. That being said I did have a period where I was a whole foods zealot and it was very hard to reach protein goals even eating meat. I was on a bulk so I was basically eating every 2 hours, but the worst thing was how much cooking was involved.
I now supplement because of that but I can still reach 130gs or so of protein some days on whole foods only. But I don’t know that I could do that with a vegan only diet without supplements. Which why I highlighted how difficult it is.
I was playing around with the numbers in another comment, and concluded that someone like me, with a target consumption or 165 g of protein and 2800 calories, simply needed to average out to 5.9g of protein per 100 calories. Several whole plant foods are above this:
Peas: 6.4 g protein per 100 calories
Beans: 6.7 g per 100
Lentils: 7.8 g per 100
Mushrooms: 7.7 g per 100
Broccoli: 6.8 g per 100
And while looking at fermented cabbage in particular, that’s actually got some really good numbers, presumably because the microbes preferentially metabolize the sugars and carbs:
Kimchi: 7.4 g per 100
Sauerkraut: 4.8 g per 100
The more active one is, and the higher the calorie needs, the easier it is to hit the target of .78g protein per pound of bodyweight while still hitting overall caloric needs. It’s the restricted cutting diets that make it hardest.
Then again, easy for me to talk because I’m always hungry and have never had trouble eating enough. Even still, though, I rely heavily on dairy for my protein goals. It’s the easiest way to plan out macros.
A peanut butter sandwich is about 24g of protein, 540 calories. 5 of those would hit the goal with a 2700 calorie total.
In contrast, a hot dog on a bun would be about 11g of protein (5.6 from the hot dog, 5.1 from the bun) and 300 calories (155 from the hot dog, 145 from the bun). Eating two of those would put you slightly behind the peanut butter sandwich in reaching protein intake goals without exceeding the daily calorie target.
If you’re very active and need a lot of calories to fuel your activity, getting enough protein is easy. If you’re trying to get enough protein on a cut with a low calorie target, it’s much harder but can be done with either supplementation (protein powder, etc.) or choosing certain processed foods (low fat dairy, tofu), and avoiding a lot of foods that just don’t fit the goals (whether plant or animal derived).
100g of beef (15% fat) has about 26 grams of protein.
Per 100 g, hemp seeds contain more than 30 g of protein.
Cooked edamame has like 11.
So yeah, there’s honestly no reason to think you can’t get enough protein as a vegan. However in this meme there’s quite a difference, the rhino isn’t eating hemp seeds. The catch for him is he needs to eat a lot and all the time. Just like cows.
But humans don’t, because you don’t need to get all your protein from grass and hay.
You’ll get that 75%… if you cook the beef. And if you’re just gulping down large raw chunks, even less.
You know what you can also do with hemp seeds?
Cook them.
Or just mill it into flour and then use for whatever. The resulting flour will be >33% protein.
Hemp flour has good protein bioavailability, with ground hemp seed protein showing digestibility of 91–98%.
But even so, your original “you’ll get about 20% of that” is just not right.
The results showed that the whole hemp seed presented 24% of proteins with an 84.1%−86.2% of digestibility, the dehulled hemp seed showed 35.9% of proteins and 83.5%−92.1% of digestibility, while the hemp seed meal contained 40.7 % of proteins with 90.8%−97.5% of digestibility.
Whole hemp seeds are about 24% protein and ~85% bioavailability
Too much of the bro science passed around in the lifting/fitness community is based on misremembered or misunderstood details of studies, that people have extrapolated well beyond the scope of that study.
It is true that plant proteins are less bioavailable to humans when eaten, compared to animal proteins. But even the slightest amount of processing will go a long way towards improving the bioavailability of either animal or plant proteins, and closes the gap significantly.
So when comparing what people actually eat, it’s not hard to get enough protein from vegan sources like bread, pasta, etc.
A 200 lb (91 kg) man who wants to get the ideal 165 g of protein on 2800 calories per day can go a long way by simply eating a peanut butter sandwich. At 4g protein per 80 calorie slice of bread, and 16 g protein per 2 fl oz/380 calorie portion of peanut butter, that’s 24 g protein in a 540 calorie sandwich. That’s 14.5% of the ideal daily protein intake in 19.3% of the ideal calorie intake, only slightly below track.
Actually seeking out high protein per calorie foods like peas (8.6 g protein for 134 calories serving or 6.4 g per 100 calories), broccoli (2.4 g protein for 35 calories or 6.8 g per 100), or beans (15 g protein for 225 calories for 6.7 per 100) makes it easy to hit the total protein goal without exceeding the calorie target. Plenty of those are better than 80/20 ground beef (19g per 280 calories for 6.8g per 100) or hot dogs (5.6 g per 155 calorie serving for 3.6g per 100).
The man I described as aiming for 165g of protein per 2800 calorie day needs to average out to 5.9 g per 100 calories. Some of the foods that exceed that break-even threshold are versatile enough to be included in many meals.
You didn’t originally mention hemp flour, but you’re right, I confused protein completeness with how much is absorbed.
However, you reminded me of another issue with vegetable proteins - protein completeness. Even though raw beef would drop absorption to around 50%, you’d get everything you need.
With vegetable proteins, you need to have variety and in higher amounts to make sure you get everything.
And I’ve only used beef as an example for meat because you did. Fish is much higher, and also complete. A few cubes of raw salmon are easier to eat than a mixture of different vegetables in terms of quantity.
But either way, none of that negates my final point: that vegetarianism would be the best option in terms of body building, because eggs have the highest absorption and are protein complete. Literally a single egg can meet the daily requirement, with the rest being staples for calories and fruits/vegetables for vitamins. For body building, a couple eggs will give plenty of protein.
“You’ll only get about 20% bioavailability from hemp seeds”.
I showed you that’s incorrect, by some 60% at least.
And I also didn’t mention whether the beef if minced or cooked.
However, you reminded me of another issue with vegetable proteins - protein completeness
Mmm
Sure
Come up with that yourself, once again?
Hemp protein has a balanced amino acid profile. All nine essential amino acids are contained in hemp protein (histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine).
Again. I’m not a vegan, nor am I taking any sort of political stance here.
I’m just pointing out how ridiculously archaic the rhetoric is they you can’t get get swole with vegan protein.
For body building hemp flour/powder is just as good if not better than chugging eggs. Depends on other factors of any given person’s diet though.
Are you eating a pound and a half of chicken a day? Most people building extra protein and consuming 100+ grams of protein are probably supplementing their protein intake.
I was going to retort but it is a fair point. I have reached more than 100g on whole foods but on most days I do rely on supplementation. Especially during a cut.
FYI just in case I have nothing against vegan bodybuilding or vegans in general. Mad respect for people who actually manage to successfully do it as I can’t imagine it being easy. I actually use vegan protein myself because it’s cheaper (tastes terrible though).
I appreciate the response. There definitely are challenges on a vegan diet for sure, just like with every diet. Although I think all protein powders and supplements taste bad.
Plenty of top endurance athletes are vegan. For one, runner Scott Jurek, seven time winner of 100-mile Western States week.
Personally, this week I biked 152 miles and placed in my age group in a 5k running race. I eat plant-based but don’t count protein grams. My take is that I eat about twice as much to cover my calorie expenditures, so I get twice as much protein. It doesn’t have to be hard.
Vegan joke. Lots of antivegan especially gym rat bros say it’s impossible to get enough protein to build proper muscle on a vegan diet.
The joke here is a much larger and more muscular herbivore is being asked about it by a carnivore.
Not impossible but damn near without resorting to hyper processed foods. Rinos can digest fibrous foods in ways humans can’t
If gym bros were philosophically opposed to hyper processed foods, whey protein (and all sorts of other animal-derived protein supplements) wouldn’t be as popular as they are. Whey used to be a nearly free byproduct of the dairy industry, and now is instead a key ingredient in supplement powders and bars and also processed food manufacturing for high protein versions of things like waffles and coffee drinks and even candy.
I’m a pretty serious lifter and I get most of my protein from a combination of legumes (probably 3-6 servings per day), processed dairy like cheeses and yogurts (probably 4-6 servings per day), and grains (probably 5-10 servings per day). I eat meat almost every day, but the actual macronutrient profile of my daily intake shows that most of my protein is coming from non-meat sources.
Hell, a typical hot dog on a bun has half of its protein in the bun (about 5g) and half the protein in the hot dog (about 5g).
It’s not hard to get enough protein from plant sources. Almost every civilization in history was build around a staple grain and a staple legume, which generally provides sufficient protein to cover people’s needs. If you’re trying to do more, like lift heavy weights, meat makes it somewhat easier to satisfy the higher protein requirements, but industrial processing is really the cheat code, whether we’re talking dairy or isolated protein from crops.
Right I conceded this point elsewhere. That being said I did have a period where I was a whole foods zealot and it was very hard to reach protein goals even eating meat. I was on a bulk so I was basically eating every 2 hours, but the worst thing was how much cooking was involved.
I now supplement because of that but I can still reach 130gs or so of protein some days on whole foods only. But I don’t know that I could do that with a vegan only diet without supplements. Which why I highlighted how difficult it is.
I was playing around with the numbers in another comment, and concluded that someone like me, with a target consumption or 165 g of protein and 2800 calories, simply needed to average out to 5.9g of protein per 100 calories. Several whole plant foods are above this:
And while looking at fermented cabbage in particular, that’s actually got some really good numbers, presumably because the microbes preferentially metabolize the sugars and carbs:
The more active one is, and the higher the calorie needs, the easier it is to hit the target of .78g protein per pound of bodyweight while still hitting overall caloric needs. It’s the restricted cutting diets that make it hardest.
Then again, easy for me to talk because I’m always hungry and have never had trouble eating enough. Even still, though, I rely heavily on dairy for my protein goals. It’s the easiest way to plan out macros.
Beans, edamame, lentils…
How many would you need to eat to reach 120g of protein though? Like 6 or 7 cups? Again I’m not saying it’s impossible just very very hard.
A peanut butter sandwich is about 24g of protein, 540 calories. 5 of those would hit the goal with a 2700 calorie total.
In contrast, a hot dog on a bun would be about 11g of protein (5.6 from the hot dog, 5.1 from the bun) and 300 calories (155 from the hot dog, 145 from the bun). Eating two of those would put you slightly behind the peanut butter sandwich in reaching protein intake goals without exceeding the daily calorie target.
If you’re very active and need a lot of calories to fuel your activity, getting enough protein is easy. If you’re trying to get enough protein on a cut with a low calorie target, it’s much harder but can be done with either supplementation (protein powder, etc.) or choosing certain processed foods (low fat dairy, tofu), and avoiding a lot of foods that just don’t fit the goals (whether plant or animal derived).
100g of beef (15% fat) has about 26 grams of protein.
Per 100 g, hemp seeds contain more than 30 g of protein.
Cooked edamame has like 11.
So yeah, there’s honestly no reason to think you can’t get enough protein as a vegan. However in this meme there’s quite a difference, the rhino isn’t eating hemp seeds. The catch for him is he needs to eat a lot and all the time. Just like cows.
But humans don’t, because you don’t need to get all your protein from grass and hay.
Am not a vegan myself though
These calculations always ignore bioavailability rates.
This and iron are the most miscalculated (though at least iron can be raised via adding acids before consumption).
You’ll get about 75% of those 26g from beef, only about 20% from the hemp seeds (much higher if hulled and ground).
Really though, vegetarians get the most protein the most easily, since both whey and eggs are over 90% absorbed.
You’ll get that 75%… if you cook the beef. And if you’re just gulping down large raw chunks, even less.
You know what you can also do with hemp seeds?
Cook them.
Or just mill it into flour and then use for whatever. The resulting flour will be >33% protein.
But even so, your original “you’ll get about 20% of that” is just not right.
Whole hemp seeds are about 24% protein and ~85% bioavailability
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/nutrition/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.1039180/full
Idk where you’re inventing your figures from
You’re spot on.
Too much of the bro science passed around in the lifting/fitness community is based on misremembered or misunderstood details of studies, that people have extrapolated well beyond the scope of that study.
It is true that plant proteins are less bioavailable to humans when eaten, compared to animal proteins. But even the slightest amount of processing will go a long way towards improving the bioavailability of either animal or plant proteins, and closes the gap significantly.
So when comparing what people actually eat, it’s not hard to get enough protein from vegan sources like bread, pasta, etc.
A 200 lb (91 kg) man who wants to get the ideal 165 g of protein on 2800 calories per day can go a long way by simply eating a peanut butter sandwich. At 4g protein per 80 calorie slice of bread, and 16 g protein per 2 fl oz/380 calorie portion of peanut butter, that’s 24 g protein in a 540 calorie sandwich. That’s 14.5% of the ideal daily protein intake in 19.3% of the ideal calorie intake, only slightly below track.
Actually seeking out high protein per calorie foods like peas (8.6 g protein for 134 calories serving or 6.4 g per 100 calories), broccoli (2.4 g protein for 35 calories or 6.8 g per 100), or beans (15 g protein for 225 calories for 6.7 per 100) makes it easy to hit the total protein goal without exceeding the calorie target. Plenty of those are better than 80/20 ground beef (19g per 280 calories for 6.8g per 100) or hot dogs (5.6 g per 155 calorie serving for 3.6g per 100).
The man I described as aiming for 165g of protein per 2800 calorie day needs to average out to 5.9 g per 100 calories. Some of the foods that exceed that break-even threshold are versatile enough to be included in many meals.
Cool, so you… Just proved what I said? Congrats.
You didn’t originally mention hemp flour, but you’re right, I confused protein completeness with how much is absorbed.
However, you reminded me of another issue with vegetable proteins - protein completeness. Even though raw beef would drop absorption to around 50%, you’d get everything you need.
With vegetable proteins, you need to have variety and in higher amounts to make sure you get everything.
And I’ve only used beef as an example for meat because you did. Fish is much higher, and also complete. A few cubes of raw salmon are easier to eat than a mixture of different vegetables in terms of quantity.
But either way, none of that negates my final point: that vegetarianism would be the best option in terms of body building, because eggs have the highest absorption and are protein complete. Literally a single egg can meet the daily requirement, with the rest being staples for calories and fruits/vegetables for vitamins. For body building, a couple eggs will give plenty of protein.
“You’ll only get about 20% bioavailability from hemp seeds”.
I showed you that’s incorrect, by some 60% at least.
And I also didn’t mention whether the beef if minced or cooked.
Mmm
Sure
Come up with that yourself, once again?
Again. I’m not a vegan, nor am I taking any sort of political stance here.
I’m just pointing out how ridiculously archaic the rhetoric is they you can’t get get swole with vegan protein.
For body building hemp flour/powder is just as good if not better than chugging eggs. Depends on other factors of any given person’s diet though.
Are you eating a pound and a half of chicken a day? Most people building extra protein and consuming 100+ grams of protein are probably supplementing their protein intake.
I was going to retort but it is a fair point. I have reached more than 100g on whole foods but on most days I do rely on supplementation. Especially during a cut.
FYI just in case I have nothing against vegan bodybuilding or vegans in general. Mad respect for people who actually manage to successfully do it as I can’t imagine it being easy. I actually use vegan protein myself because it’s cheaper (tastes terrible though).
I appreciate the response. There definitely are challenges on a vegan diet for sure, just like with every diet. Although I think all protein powders and supplements taste bad.
Yeah, something like 1.5-2g of protein per kg of body weight feels impossible on a vegan diet. I’d be eating nothing but beans all day.
Thats kind if a ridivulous amount especially if you’re getting all the surrohnding nutrition you need to build it properly.
But if you really need that much, the omnivore is already eating chivken+rice unseasoned 10x/day. Gallon of soybeans is reasonable, relatively.
Plenty of top endurance athletes are vegan. For one, runner Scott Jurek, seven time winner of 100-mile Western States week.
Personally, this week I biked 152 miles and placed in my age group in a 5k running race. I eat plant-based but don’t count protein grams. My take is that I eat about twice as much to cover my calorie expenditures, so I get twice as much protein. It doesn’t have to be hard.
Was thinking in the context of body building when I wrote that.
Wheat is the number one source of protein in the world. Almost all food has some protein except for like fruits.