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Being on the white line might not necessarily improve my visibility, but hear me out…
If you’re riding right in front of the vehicle driving like an ass, you got a 100℅ chance of getting hit or run over. But if you keep your bike on the edge of the road, you significantly reduce your chances of getting run over by an idiot.
if you keep your bike on the edge of the road, you significantly reduce your chances of getting run over by an idiot.
Quite the opposite. This has been statistically verified many times. You can verify the verification with a simple web search, if you really want to know.
Brother, stop making up nonsense hypothetical scenarios, and just look at the science and the conventional wisdom developed over hundreds of years of study.
I’m really sorry to hear about your friends. I’ve been fortunate enough to have only ever had close calls (a friend in hospital for weeks), but no deaths.
But the fact that you mention it’s an intersection means it’s really not helping your case in this discussion.
At an intersection, I hope we can all agree on this: all the same types of crash that are possible on a straight section are possible, with the addition of some others. Those others include the left hook (I’m using Australian terms for driving on the left, flip left and right if you’re on a right-side drive country), where a driver who wants to turn left at the intersection, when you’re going straight, partially but does not completely overtake you before turning at the intersection. T-boning, where a driver going straight through the intersection at a right angle to you hits you in the side; it can happen from the right or the left. I’ll also include under T-boning the case where a driver pulls out in front of you causing you to T-bone them, since the thing the driver did wrong is the same in each case, it’s just a matter of milliseconds. And a right hook, where someone turns across your path into the lane on your left, from the oncoming traffic lane.
The right hook and right T-bone are unaffected by where you ride on the road. Since they’re coming from the other side, visibility is very clear.
Left T-boning is mostly unaffected, but on some intersection it’s possible that being closer to the left of the lane might result in being obscured for longer. In this screenshot, I’ve drawn (yellow) lines from where a car on the side street might be, to where a cyclist might be at the edge of the lane (blue) and middle of the lane (green). If there’s an obstacle obstructing their view, the green cyclist might be seen sooner, as shown by the line to the blue bike running through the obstacle. Very much an edge case and not what I’d focus on, but worth considering.
The left hook, however, is a big concern for cyclists. It’s one of the most common incidents I’ve seen. Riding in the middle of the lane helps prevent it.
Here I’ve drawn a car in maroon, and shown the path the car wants to take with an arrow. With the green bike, the car can easily see that it cannot do this, because it would require going through the cyclist. Which they know they cannot do. They might get annoyed, but they be much more likely to wait behind until it is safe to go. But with the blue bike, many drivers will be tempted to do it, because they can get past, and they don’t realise that they have not given enough time for themselves to fully exit the road before the cyclist gets to the intersection. They left hooked.
I just finished explaining why in the comment you just replied to.
What makes you think you’re any more visible on the white line?
Being on the white line might not necessarily improve my visibility, but hear me out…
If you’re riding right in front of the vehicle driving like an ass, you got a 100℅ chance of getting hit or run over. But if you keep your bike on the edge of the road, you significantly reduce your chances of getting run over by an idiot.
Quite the opposite. This has been statistically verified many times. You can verify the verification with a simple web search, if you really want to know.
Can you provide it?
Keep reading.
Umm, if you’re driving and a deer is in the road, you’ll likely hit it.
If the deer is not in the road but close to the edge, ditch, or fence, you’re much less likely to hit it.
Now as a bicycle rider, think of yourself as the deer…
Brother, stop making up nonsense hypothetical scenarios, and just look at the science and the conventional wisdom developed over hundreds of years of study.
Okay, let’s skip past the hypothetical shit, I’ve literally lost not one but two friends that got plastered into road pizza while riding a bike.
Same intersection, not the same day though, but only months apart. They apparently weren’t paying attention to their surroundings. ☹️💀
I only made up the hypothetical because I… I’m sad 😭
I’m really sorry to hear about your friends. I’ve been fortunate enough to have only ever had close calls (a friend in hospital for weeks), but no deaths.
But the fact that you mention it’s an intersection means it’s really not helping your case in this discussion.
At an intersection, I hope we can all agree on this: all the same types of crash that are possible on a straight section are possible, with the addition of some others. Those others include the left hook (I’m using Australian terms for driving on the left, flip left and right if you’re on a right-side drive country), where a driver who wants to turn left at the intersection, when you’re going straight, partially but does not completely overtake you before turning at the intersection. T-boning, where a driver going straight through the intersection at a right angle to you hits you in the side; it can happen from the right or the left. I’ll also include under T-boning the case where a driver pulls out in front of you causing you to T-bone them, since the thing the driver did wrong is the same in each case, it’s just a matter of milliseconds. And a right hook, where someone turns across your path into the lane on your left, from the oncoming traffic lane.
The right hook and right T-bone are unaffected by where you ride on the road. Since they’re coming from the other side, visibility is very clear.
Left T-boning is mostly unaffected, but on some intersection it’s possible that being closer to the left of the lane might result in being obscured for longer. In this screenshot, I’ve drawn (yellow) lines from where a car on the side street might be, to where a cyclist might be at the edge of the lane (blue) and middle of the lane (green). If there’s an obstacle obstructing their view, the green cyclist might be seen sooner, as shown by the line to the blue bike running through the obstacle. Very much an edge case and not what I’d focus on, but worth considering.
The left hook, however, is a big concern for cyclists. It’s one of the most common incidents I’ve seen. Riding in the middle of the lane helps prevent it.
Here I’ve drawn a car in maroon, and shown the path the car wants to take with an arrow. With the green bike, the car can easily see that it cannot do this, because it would require going through the cyclist. Which they know they cannot do. They might get annoyed, but they be much more likely to wait behind until it is safe to go. But with the blue bike, many drivers will be tempted to do it, because they can get past, and they don’t realise that they have not given enough time for themselves to fully exit the road before the cyclist gets to the intersection. They left hooked.
The logic with the left hook here is not too dissimilar to the side-swipe that’s possible absolutely anywhere. By being in the lane, you stop a driver from passing you too close. This video from the US does a really good job of explaining it with graphics.
I’m sorry to hear that but I don’t understand what that has to do with this conversation?
Cycling safety, pay attention to surroundings