When I first came to Lemmy I thought that people here share my opinion and some sort of movement will form.
After some time I realized that people on here are to busy feeling smug that they don’t buy the "wrong kind of juice anymore and tell other people that genocide is wrong. They are to busy with performance than with organizing.
Then I saw the discussion culture on here with has nothing to do with having a conversation but with angrily trowing strawmans around. All around disillusioned with the whole affair.
You know how rarebit is on here that someone asks “what makes you think that?”. So I give up, to much infighting for any meaningful momentum to build up.
So what’s the alternative? In my opinion the systems we have eat themselves. They are not sustainable and need to change. But why do things change? Because it’s necessary to change. Why is it necessary to change? Pressure.
So the thought ist that the people I agree with on a “what the world should look like in the end”-level will never organize in a fashion that will build enough pressure to change the systems.
But thats fine. The systems bending under their own weight so all we have to do to build pressure is to participate.
I don’t believe that we can change direction, but I believe we can arrive at the point at which the system is under so much pressure that it has to change, faster.
But thats not the only reason. It’s a complex topic and as other complex topics there are many things intervowen.
So I join them because it will destroy it faster and my life is better for the time I do it.
Plus I’m disillusioned with the left and the “moral uber alles”. You play against people that cheat and in this game we play with lives. So playing by the “rules” because you(not you personal, the general you) feel better doing so still kills people. I think it is a irresponsible way of acting and unmasked the underlying reason that it is not about arriving in a better world but to feel good.
The right plays to win and will do whatever it takes, so they will always win against people who don’t.
So I join them not because I believe in their cause, I join them because I believe self destruction is the only valid way out of this.
When you change yourself, you change the world. You influence those around you. It seems like you’d rather be complacent like the majority. Of course a public messaging board will have people just yapping with little action. The real effort & action is happening locally in your towns and city council meetings. You have to get out there and find those groups that are willing to put in that effort & not be complacent. If there isn’t a group, let yourself be the spark. It’s exhausting and sucks sometimes but seeing it grow with real change at the local level is beautiful.
People share your opinion here. You are the movement and discussion is how it starts. Are you so naive that you think our current paradigms are going to solve our problems? We must invent new ones. This is the first step of any change. You are literally here at the first step and have already given up because you are disillusioned.
Leftist don’t have the answer, they just have compassion (well, some of them). There are so many good ways to solve our problems it isn’t funny. You are supposed to be finding these solutions that will be acceptable for all parties. There are winners and losers in every policy decision. The trick is making it palatable for the loser.
If you haven’t figured it out we are the losers. They are making it somewhat palatable for us (non wealthy people). This is what needs to be changed and we have to convince people. This is what will bring about change. None of our existing paradigms offers the answer. You are here to create this new paradigm.
You might be right that self destruction is the only viable ending. But joining them and “feeling good” well knowing you are participating in artrocious activities and self destruction makes you an huge asshole.
I’ll be arriving here soon i think. having kids has really taken the violent revolutionary out of me. good luck DSA , good job getting bigger, hope you get huge and replace a rotting pointless corpse of a movement
Brother you are not the main character. Doing the morally right thing doesn’t mean you are carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders. You are simply lying to yourself.
(a whole bunch of blah blah blah trying to justify the last sentence)
So I join them not because I believe in their cause, I join them because I believe self destruction is the only valid way out of this.
I am not terribly convinced by your own strawmanning nor by your stated desire to see their destruction. I would at least piss on a nazi that was on fire to help put it out. Letting them burn just creates martyrs. Wearing their colors and dousing them petrol is just more nazi shit.
A ton of good people are working tirelessly to prevent it and make the world a better place. This common shit take isn’t helping, it enables bad people to do as they please and shows bad character (or lack of education, one of those two).
The meltdowns are all in your head, I just see disagreement.
The whole bad vs good thing you just pulled out of your arse too. You are not being called out for being disillusioned, I think many can relate, you are being called out for also being a dick about it.
Than you are willfully ignoring what people wrote. Attacking someone’s character is not just disagreement.
Saying I have a bad character was literally the first response to my comment so I didn’t pull it out of my as, I build on top of what others have said. You just willfully ignoring that too :D
And I’m a dick about it? See? You disagree with me and instantly start calling me names xD
Go ahead and be a pessimist all you like. No need to embroil others in your misery. Honestly if you really don’t care then why toss shit at someone about their character, as if you’re some paragon of virtue? Pick a fucking lane and stick to it.
I’m not miserable, quite the opposite. And I have the right to share my opinion as everybody else.
And why paragon of virtue? I just repeated their accusation back at them to show how ridiculous it is to couple the evaluation of character to one thing.
But as it seems most people on here are fine with ignoring the complexity of a person.
How does not knowing that people use money to bulldoze others’ desires show a lack of character? It looks like you got offended because you’re the main character, so of course you’re a good person and you don’t do this, so it’s dumb and nobody should.
It’s crazy how you people argue about strawman all the time. You just start imaging a person and then start to talk about your fantasy as if it is real.
I said it looks like that- if it’s not that, please tell me what it is. I also didn’t argue with it. Now it feels like you’re imagining that other internet users are a hive mind that acts the same for a common goal. Maybe you’re not and I’m just misinterpreting your words though ;)
I commented in the suspicion that you were rationalizing your behavior out of sour grapes and in the hope that you’d realize it and stop discouraging others from trying to fix things, as well as the hope that others reading wouldn’t begin to follow your lead. I can’t tell you why anyone else commented though.
Yes you said it looks like that, which is an assumption, and then you build upon that assumption instead of asking if your assumption is accurate as you do now.
Why didn’t you ask in the first place?
With “you people” I mean people that do what you did and what you did I already described. Not some internet hivemind.
And I just repeated their stuff back to them to shoe how ridiculous it is to couple the evaluation of character to one statement. It completely ignores the complexity of a human being and I think that is worth to make fun of.
Making an assumption would be saying “you got offended…,” not ”it looks like you got offended,” that’s an observation. What’s the point in asking, if you’ll correct an incorrect assumption anyway? Normally politeness would compel me to ask, but I don’t feel the need to be polite to those who aren’t trying to help.
With “you people” I mean people that do what you did and what you did I already described. Not some internet hivemind.
But I thought you meant people who invented and argued with strawmen? I made an observation and no arguments, so clearly you don’t mean me.
Theres a big difference between some climate change (which we can no longer prevent), and a lot of climate change.
I don’t think we’ll get to have much fun if we’re dealing with mass migrations and a collapse of food systems. Not saying generative AI use alone will push us to that point, but this attitude of defeatism will
There are so many things in the world that are going wrong and are going wrong since a long time, saying my attitude is the problem is laughable.
Playing monopoly with people who cheat, have more resources then you, are able to change the rules, already own a bunch of streets, etc. and then saying “I stop playing” is a rational thing to do.
I don’t believe that things will change before things get much worse so nobody can deny the facts anymore that those systems eat themselves.
You a so full of yourself that you don’t get that just calling someone a coward doesn’t make it so.
And what you interpret as a tu quoque was me trying to understand what kind of personal definition you spun up in your head.
You are not as smart as you think. Quite the opposite.
People call other people coward to manipulate them in doing something they otherwise wouldn’t do. Miss me with that shit.
Fighting a bear with just a stick because someone yells from the sideline that you are a coward if you don’t, doesn’t make you brave, it just makes you a soon to be dead idiot.
Pretty convenient that you can’t proof that you aren’t just talking shit. But it’s fine I didn’t believed you in the first place.
Happens anyway might as well have fun with it.
Those are the people that are shaping the world we live in.
And you’re joining them. Why?
When I first came to Lemmy I thought that people here share my opinion and some sort of movement will form.
After some time I realized that people on here are to busy feeling smug that they don’t buy the "wrong kind of juice anymore and tell other people that genocide is wrong. They are to busy with performance than with organizing.
Then I saw the discussion culture on here with has nothing to do with having a conversation but with angrily trowing strawmans around. All around disillusioned with the whole affair.
You know how rarebit is on here that someone asks “what makes you think that?”. So I give up, to much infighting for any meaningful momentum to build up.
So what’s the alternative? In my opinion the systems we have eat themselves. They are not sustainable and need to change. But why do things change? Because it’s necessary to change. Why is it necessary to change? Pressure.
So the thought ist that the people I agree with on a “what the world should look like in the end”-level will never organize in a fashion that will build enough pressure to change the systems.
But thats fine. The systems bending under their own weight so all we have to do to build pressure is to participate.
I don’t believe that we can change direction, but I believe we can arrive at the point at which the system is under so much pressure that it has to change, faster.
But thats not the only reason. It’s a complex topic and as other complex topics there are many things intervowen.
So I join them because it will destroy it faster and my life is better for the time I do it.
Plus I’m disillusioned with the left and the “moral uber alles”. You play against people that cheat and in this game we play with lives. So playing by the “rules” because you(not you personal, the general you) feel better doing so still kills people. I think it is a irresponsible way of acting and unmasked the underlying reason that it is not about arriving in a better world but to feel good.
The right plays to win and will do whatever it takes, so they will always win against people who don’t.
So I join them not because I believe in their cause, I join them because I believe self destruction is the only valid way out of this.
When you change yourself, you change the world. You influence those around you. It seems like you’d rather be complacent like the majority. Of course a public messaging board will have people just yapping with little action. The real effort & action is happening locally in your towns and city council meetings. You have to get out there and find those groups that are willing to put in that effort & not be complacent. If there isn’t a group, let yourself be the spark. It’s exhausting and sucks sometimes but seeing it grow with real change at the local level is beautiful.
People share your opinion here. You are the movement and discussion is how it starts. Are you so naive that you think our current paradigms are going to solve our problems? We must invent new ones. This is the first step of any change. You are literally here at the first step and have already given up because you are disillusioned.
Leftist don’t have the answer, they just have compassion (well, some of them). There are so many good ways to solve our problems it isn’t funny. You are supposed to be finding these solutions that will be acceptable for all parties. There are winners and losers in every policy decision. The trick is making it palatable for the loser.
If you haven’t figured it out we are the losers. They are making it somewhat palatable for us (non wealthy people). This is what needs to be changed and we have to convince people. This is what will bring about change. None of our existing paradigms offers the answer. You are here to create this new paradigm.
We’re not dropping out; we’re infiltrating and
taking overaccelerating the collapse.You might be right that self destruction is the only viable ending. But joining them and “feeling good” well knowing you are participating in artrocious activities and self destruction makes you an huge asshole.
No, feeling good because I don’t carry the weight of the world on my shoulders anymore doesn’t make me an asshole, it makes me healthy.
I’ll be arriving here soon i think. having kids has really taken the violent revolutionary out of me. good luck DSA , good job getting bigger, hope you get huge and replace a rotting pointless corpse of a movement
Brother you are not the main character. Doing the morally right thing doesn’t mean you are carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders. You are simply lying to yourself.
you can’t be the main character i’m the main character
╱|、
(˚ˎ 。7
|、˜〵
じしˍ,)ノ
Completely missing the point.
I am not terribly convinced by your own strawmanning nor by your stated desire to see their destruction. I would at least piss on a nazi that was on fire to help put it out. Letting them burn just creates martyrs. Wearing their colors and dousing them petrol is just more nazi shit.
Good thing I’m not trying to convince you. The way you treat what I wrote is a good example for why.
A ton of good people are working tirelessly to prevent it and make the world a better place. This common shit take isn’t helping, it enables bad people to do as they please and shows bad character (or lack of education, one of those two).
They should stop wasting their time.
I’m not trying to help.
Money enables people to do as they please. That you don’t know that shows your bad character (or lack of education, one of those two).
Actively discouraging people from caring about saving the world, and then having the nerve to call out “bad character”, just wow.
I understand giving up, I just dont understand why one would actively bring down others still trying.
Someone here is showing bad character, and it isnt the one you called out for it…
Saving the world xD
Yeah, people on here are surely saving the world with the downvotes and screeching at everything that doesn’t align with their views.
This isn’t about saving the world this is all about the ego of keyboard warriors who are thinkn in Bad or good as if this is a movie.
How are these peoples supposed to “save the world” if they have a meltdown just reading a different opinion? :D
The meltdowns are all in your head, I just see disagreement.
The whole bad vs good thing you just pulled out of your arse too. You are not being called out for being disillusioned, I think many can relate, you are being called out for also being a dick about it.
Than you are willfully ignoring what people wrote. Attacking someone’s character is not just disagreement.
Saying I have a bad character was literally the first response to my comment so I didn’t pull it out of my as, I build on top of what others have said. You just willfully ignoring that too :D
And I’m a dick about it? See? You disagree with me and instantly start calling me names xD
“Different opinion” and it’s just supporting Trump and Epstein
Paradox of tolerance
Go ahead and be a pessimist all you like. No need to embroil others in your misery. Honestly if you really don’t care then why toss shit at someone about their character, as if you’re some paragon of virtue? Pick a fucking lane and stick to it.
I’m not miserable, quite the opposite. And I have the right to share my opinion as everybody else.
And why paragon of virtue? I just repeated their accusation back at them to show how ridiculous it is to couple the evaluation of character to one thing.
But as it seems most people on here are fine with ignoring the complexity of a person.
I don’t owe you consistency :D
The right for people to survive is not an opinion. It is non negotiable
Hostage negotiators and murderer would beg to differ I assume.
Maybe the world is a bit more complex then the writings on your coffeemug suggest.
The murderer usually can’t convince a negotiator to shoot the hostage, and that’s a false equivalence
as the negotiator and the murderer are not debating on if the hostage is worth saving
A hostage negotiator negotiates for other people to live.
A murderer just takes a life without negotiations.
You say those things don’t exist, I’m telling you that reality shows that the right to life is negotiated everyday thousands of times.
You talking about how the world should work, I’m talking about how the world works right now.
Externalities exist
Can’t argue with that.
How does not knowing that people use money to bulldoze others’ desires show a lack of character? It looks like you got offended because you’re the main character, so of course you’re a good person and you don’t do this, so it’s dumb and nobody should.
It’s crazy how you people argue about strawman all the time. You just start imaging a person and then start to talk about your fantasy as if it is real.
Why do you do that?
I said it looks like that- if it’s not that, please tell me what it is. I also didn’t argue with it. Now it feels like you’re imagining that other internet users are a hive mind that acts the same for a common goal. Maybe you’re not and I’m just misinterpreting your words though ;)
I commented in the suspicion that you were rationalizing your behavior out of sour grapes and in the hope that you’d realize it and stop discouraging others from trying to fix things, as well as the hope that others reading wouldn’t begin to follow your lead. I can’t tell you why anyone else commented though.
Yes you said it looks like that, which is an assumption, and then you build upon that assumption instead of asking if your assumption is accurate as you do now.
Why didn’t you ask in the first place?
With “you people” I mean people that do what you did and what you did I already described. Not some internet hivemind.
And I just repeated their stuff back to them to shoe how ridiculous it is to couple the evaluation of character to one statement. It completely ignores the complexity of a human being and I think that is worth to make fun of.
Making an assumption would be saying “you got offended…,” not ”it looks like you got offended,” that’s an observation. What’s the point in asking, if you’ll correct an incorrect assumption anyway? Normally politeness would compel me to ask, but I don’t feel the need to be polite to those who aren’t trying to help.
But I thought you meant people who invented and argued with strawmen? I made an observation and no arguments, so clearly you don’t mean me.
Fair.
It’s not a binary switch
Theres a big difference between some climate change (which we can no longer prevent), and a lot of climate change.
I don’t think we’ll get to have much fun if we’re dealing with mass migrations and a collapse of food systems. Not saying generative AI use alone will push us to that point, but this attitude of defeatism will
Nah, my attitude is fine.
There are so many things in the world that are going wrong and are going wrong since a long time, saying my attitude is the problem is laughable.
Playing monopoly with people who cheat, have more resources then you, are able to change the rules, already own a bunch of streets, etc. and then saying “I stop playing” is a rational thing to do.
I don’t believe that things will change before things get much worse so nobody can deny the facts anymore that those systems eat themselves.
So until then I spend my time having fun.
You are a coward
I’m just not an idiot but I understand that is hard for you to see.
But I’m intrigued. What are you doing which makes you not a coward in your opinion?
That’s a tu quoqe but I actually act against tyrannical regimes
How is it a tu quoque?
Sure Buddy, and how exactly?
The fact xD how can a fact be countered?
You a so full of yourself that you don’t get that just calling someone a coward doesn’t make it so.
And what you interpret as a tu quoque was me trying to understand what kind of personal definition you spun up in your head.
You are not as smart as you think. Quite the opposite.
People call other people coward to manipulate them in doing something they otherwise wouldn’t do. Miss me with that shit.
Fighting a bear with just a stick because someone yells from the sideline that you are a coward if you don’t, doesn’t make you brave, it just makes you a soon to be dead idiot.
Pretty convenient that you can’t proof that you aren’t just talking shit. But it’s fine I didn’t believed you in the first place.
Have fun in your fantasy world :D