From the founder of Wildberries …
“There are no words to describe all the feelings and emotions caused by the attacks on ordinary people, on our employees, on us, who are simply doing our jobs,” she wrote on Telegram. “But these situations demonstrate the most important thing: we must continue to do what we do for the benefit of people.”
I bet she had the same feelings about Ukrainian civilians. Right?.. Right?
My take:
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yes, Wildberries did sell and store drone components, single mode bare fiber and such stuff, but not on a world-changing scale, they most likely supplied smallish drone makers, not big ones
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legally, this makes them a target, but actual damage from a burning Wildberries warehouse to Russian warfighting capability is small
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meanwhile the presence of civilian employees and a great amount of totally unrelated goods discourages attacking them, and strongly advises to plan any attacks in a way to minimize loss of life
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anyway, Ukraine has finally decided to attack them, property damage is likely quite big, not sure about loss of life
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this will cause Russian air defense a great deal of trouble, since they have to reshuffle their defenses (they are already over-extended)
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but, this does not remove Russia’s sources of income, just genrally f**ks with their economy and causes dissatisfafaction and uncertainty
So overall, I’m not cheering, but I’m not condemning it either.
It’s roughly equivalent to Russia bombing UkrPochta (they’ve done it) with the justification that its warehouses contain Chinese drone parts arriving into Ukraine. Reading directly, not a super bright move - militarily, a target of very low relevance. It could give an advantage through secondary effects.
Ending the war is eventually going to come down to dissatisfaction from the people in Russia, and them eventually doing something to stop their leadership from forcing them to suffer. I think this is likely a smart move, even if it doesn’t affect the frontlines much.
Eventually the cost and lack of fuel, along with the general lack of goods, will lead to the Russian people taking a stand. They should live up to their history and overthrow their modern emperor, who’s living a life of luxury while they suffer an endless war.
I hope you’re right.
They have ‘elections’ coming in September, so if this kind of events make people discuss the war, and maybe doubt the official story of how utterly necessary it is, or how utterly well it’s going for them… maybe. But I would not bet on that outcome.
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Wildberries were forced by Putin into a merger with Russ Group. Then became part of the military supply chain. They are using them to bypass sanctions on military goods. Wildberries was already selling body armor and helmets to civilians. Now they are a military supplier.
Maybe quit selling products used by the Russian invaders then.
She has no clue as to the actions of Russia on Ukraine.
She is just a definition of being cynical.
She’s been radicalized by the attack. This was a big problem for the USA in Vietnam.
These terror attacks strengthen Russian resolve.
Ukraine was also radicalized by Russian strikes on civilian apartments, hospitals, theaters, railway stations, markets, schools and power infrastructure (in the middle of winter no less). Or are those legitimate military targets now?
No, but nobody is defending those. This is a complete non-sequitur.
Legitimate targets supplying the Russian war machine. FTFY.
Legitimate attacks or not, they will radicalize Russians more and provide fuel for Russia’s propaganda machine in the same way that Russian attacks on Ukrainian schools, apartment complexes, hospitals, etc have stengthened Ukrainian resolve.
Using such attacks to destroy infrastructure, supply lines, etc to reduce Russian effectiveness at the frontlines seems fair enough to me, but using it as a psychological tool to convince Russians that they’re on the wrong side is completely moronic imo and ignores a lot of historic evidence that terror just doesn’t work that way.
Newsflash: business associates of rapists upset that they are being treated as business associates of rapists. Treating business associates of rapists like business associates of rapists will make the business associates of rapists upset.
Interesting to see that you choose to focus so much on the hurt and the pain. All I’m trying to say is that I don’t think the psychological aspect is beneficial for Ukraine, rather the opposite…
It doesn’t matter anymore friend. This is mutually assured destruction. Neither side is getting out of this fight ever again. In a thousand years if we haven’t wiped our pitiful species off the face of the earth Russia will be fighting Ukraine, Israel will be fighting Palestine, and India will be fighting Pakistan. You get that right? This war doesn’t end until Russia and Ukraine are both extinct. Putin has made it perfectly clear that radical or not he is not going to let Ukraine go. Ukraine will never live under Russian boots again, not while a single Ukrainian draws breath anywhere in the world. There is no win condition, it’s just mindless violence now.
If that’s your view of the world, then sure, it makes sense to bomb everything and cause as much death and destruction. I prefer a more positive view of the future though, happier life and all that
It’s a pointless war that didn’t have to happen. But it did, and millions of civillians are dead because of it. Until Russia leaves entirely, then there is no end to this. No peace.
Holy fucking eye roll
Ukraine has limited manpower compared to Russia, and thus needs to take every step possible to reduce the ability for Russia to supply its military, including procurement services such as those provided by Wildberries.
Disclaimer: Not the parent comment’s author.
And if that’s what’s going on here then fair enough, but I at least struggle to believe Russia is getting a significant amount of arms or supplies by the Russian equivalent of Amazon. If Russia’s (very real) supply issues were this bad they’d have lost already. One would have to have frankly unearned levels of trust in the Ukrainian government and military to take Zelenskyy’s statement at face value. I’m not saying the bombings were definitely a war crime, but Ukraine’s claims shouldn’t be accepted either until they provide evidence and professional journalism should gasp investigate those claims before platforming them.
Is this a third wave? Anyone have the bingo board or some kind of %? I know the first wave hit around 15% of their storage capacity.
The new face of war where private companies become legit military targets. The Ukrainians are fighting 10 years in the future.
The moment any private company works with the military they become a valid military target.
If they don’t like it, fuck em. They can choose not to take blood money any time they want.
Uh… not quite how that works? Only facilities or infrastructure that has military value proportional to the damage to civilians are valid military targets. If a company, say, makes guns and also toy guns, only the gun factory would be a valid military target; bombing the toy gun factory would still be a war crime.
That’s why AWS Datacenters were hit by Iran a few months ago.
Correct. They made themselves valid targets.
Okay obviously fuck Russia, but how is this not a war crime?
By Wildberries being a military supplier?
Details? The article quotes Zelenskyy, who said that the site is “involved in providing the Russian army with drone components, navigation equipment and other gear,” but even taking that at face value, there’s no information on how much and whether there were significant quantities of these things in the warehouses that got bombed. The principle of proportionality matters here, because a warehouse that contains two rifles meant for the Russian army and a thousand shirts headed for Russian civilians is still a civilian target and bombing it would still be a war crime. I for one doubt commercial warehouses are a significant source of arms for Russia, and it’s entirely possible that this
“The collateral damage from such strikes could also have a serious impact on the Russian economy, as well as a psychological effect on Russian society and, likely, on continued support for the war.”
Is the real aim of the bombings. I’m not saying it’s 100% a war crime, but at the very least it’s very disappointing that the article makes no attempt to confirm whether the Ukrainian claims here hold.
They literally address it in the article. Military hardware and drone components were readily available on the website even after the attacks. What else do you want to see?
Besides, it’s not like Russia has given a shit about war crimes since they invaded. They commit them daily. Acting like Ukraine should be following the rules that Russia has torn to shreds for 4-years is…idiotic.
Not sure if your posts are bad faith/intentional misdirection or simple stupidity. Either way, it’s not a good look for you. Do better.
What else do you want to see?
Like I said, that these things were going to the Russian army in significant numbers and that the warehouses bombed included them in significant numbers.
Acting like Ukraine should be following the rules that Russia has torn to shreds for 4-years is…idiotic.
That’s not how international law (or, for that matter, basic morality) works. Zionists use this same rhetoric to justify Israeli war crimes, but it’s wrong then and it’s wrong now. International law (and, again, basic morality) applies to all countries independent of whether anyone else is following it, because bombing civilians is bad period and shouldn’t be done unless there’s no alternative. Charred bodies of innocents aren’t any less abhorrent when they’re Russian; if international law/basic morality only applies when the other side is the Bad Guy™ then we might as well toss the whole damn thing in the trash. Terror bombing was and is bad even when done to Nazis, or we should all be celebrating 9/11.
Terror bombing was and is bad even when done to Nazis, or we should all be celebrating 9/11.
Stop using the “terrorism” bullshit. The term is next to useless. Generally, as used today, terrorism is when a non-state actor uses violence. That’s it. Police are, by definition, terrorists, but we don’t use the term for that. At the end of the day, war is terrorism. All war. Acting like you can be morally perfect in war is a total misunderstanding of war. When it’s over, the survivors can figure out what was wrong. If Ukraine doesn’t survive then there is nothing to be held accountable for. Survival comes first.
Is this an ideal target? Obviously not. However, there are no ideal targets. There are targets of opportunity. You can choose to pass on an opportunity, but if you do that and it causes more people to die, that’s a mistake. I think this is a fairly good target, because it puts pressure on the people of Russia. In the end, it’s them who are going to have to end this invasion. Putin won’t. They’re going to have to force an end, and they’re going to have to face consequences before they do that. They can end it whenever they want though.
Stop using the “terrorism” bullshit. The term is next to useless.
I agree, but I also didn’t say “terrorism;” I used the far more precise term of terror bombing, meaning “the strategic bombing of civilian targets without military value, in the hope of damaging an enemy’s morale.”
There are targets of opportunity.
There are targets of opportunity, but should have enough military value to make the opportunity worth the moral cost.
I think this is a fairly good target, because it puts pressure on the people of Russia.
Again literally Zionist rhetoric. Is international law (or the basic morality meant to be portrayed by it) just for show or what? Wasn’t killing civilians bad? If “putting pressure on the enemy” is enough justification to bomb something then, again, we should be celebrating 9/11. Otherwise Ukraine has the right to defend itself, but not—barring clear military value—to bomb online retailers. And in any case, this lesson has been learned time and time again since WWII; terror bombing only galvanizes the enemy population and absolutely doesn’t compel surrender. Putin couldn’t ask for better propaganda.
This is more strategic bombing than terror bombing though. Terror bombing would be, for example, targeting apartments, or things like that. This is a warehouse that is used by a company supplying goods to the military. The fact it also damages civilian quality of life is just a bonus (in my opinion, or negative if you think civilians shouldn’t face consequences).
Again literally Zionist rhetoric.
Just because it’s similar to rhetoric Zionists use doesn’t make it Zionist rhetoric. The largest difference is the Zionists are the invaders, as the Russians are in this case. If Palestinians can fight back like the Ukrainians are here, to try to force Israel to back off, then I’m in favor of it.
Is international law (or the basic morality meant to be portrayed by it) just for show or what?
Basically, yes, and it always has been. Russia didn’t agree to the same rules, so Ukraine shouldn’t have to follow them when defending from them. It’s like if a soccer/football team plays against a rugby team. If they don’t have the same rules, it isn’t really going to work out. The rules are there so, after it’s over, we can decide who to hold accountable.
If Ukraine follows all the international laws then they’re fucked. For example, antipersonnel mines are banned by international law. Meanwhile Russia is throwing them all over the place. Should Ukraine, the defenders, not be allowed to use that tool to prevent advances? Sure, the effects after are horrible, but the effects of Ukraine losing would be worse, and they’re there anyway because of Russia.
And in any case, this lesson has been learned time and time again since WWII; terror bombing only galvanizes the enemy population and absolutely doesn’t compel surrender. Putin couldn’t ask for better propaganda.
I agree. That’s why Ukraine hasn’t done so. They could hit apartments in Moscow, like Russia is doing, but that wouldn’t serve their goal. The goal is to put pressure on civilians. It’s not like they targeted civilians here. They targeted a warehouse. I’m not sure how many dies, if any, but it won’t be a large number. It will prevent or slow down purchases though. It won’t really galvanize them, rather it’ll annoy them. If they wanted to hurt civilians they would have hit a power station near Moscow.
They show in the article that Wildberries sells body armor which is clearly in the category of military/dual use. That doesn’t address your point about proportionality though, nor do I think it can be addressed easily without proper data backing up the claims. It’s on Ukraine though to provide that data to make it clear to the world that they’re attacking legitimate targets and not committing war crimes, especially with the deaths of quite a few civilians.
Thank you that’s exactly what I’m trying to say.
