Inflation-adjusted home prices in China have fallen below where they started two decades ago, and the fiscal fallout is hitting local governments even harder than developers.
A few years ago in China a guy went viral on billibilli (their version of YouTube) for covering how hard it was to be retired in China. The CCP took his Channel away and censored him. Funnily enough in the years since the CCP has made strides in increasing the payout of their social security system.
So they censored him and then responded to the criticism anyway.
Honestly --minus the censorship-- I wish the US would handle it this way. Stop relying on 401ks and housing value to backstop peoples retirement and increase social security payouts. The elderly have earned their right to take a break from the grind of capitalism. They should be relaxing and passing on what they’ve learned from their time on earth to the next generation.
So they censored him and then responded to the criticism anyway.
Being criticized meant they were losing face. Saving face is very important in many Asian cultures.
Stop relying on 401ks and housing value to backstop peoples retirement and increase social security payouts
Not gonna work in an aging society unfortunately. Social security payouts come from current taxes. If you don’t have enough young people, you can’t really fund social security. If you have a national pension fund that collects money for your retirement as YOU work, it’s not too different from a 401k, the only difference is who has control over it. Most countries don’t do that though.
Fun story: My country has a system similar to 401k (it has deferred taxation, reduced taxation and government matching, so basically free money), but you couldn’t take money out of it until retirement… Until a few years ago when conservatives changed it, so now you can take money out, but if you do, you pay full taxes and you can’t resume payments for 10 years. At least a third of the country took that opportunity. Our equivalent of social security hasn’t been significantly increased and in fact retirement age is being raised by roughly a month a year currently because otherwise the system would become unaffordable. At this point I’m considering cashing mine in in a few years only because I’m afraid that if the conservatives get enough power they’ll manage to pass some stupid ass law taking away everyone’s funds and using it to fund increased social security for their current old voters, at which point I’ll just lose all of it unlike the people who have taken theirs out.
All forms of retirement are funded by current workers. Social security is just more honest about it. A retired person is still consuming goods and services produced by the working without producing anything themselves.
You’re presenting your argument as if it were fact. Which is how conservatives always try to frame their arguments around social security.
Basic question, if its so impossible for it to work why is China able to do it?
Basic answer, it’s not impossible – it just requires a progressive taxation for social security where the rich pay into it more. Which is why conservatives are so against it.
Look man, money is fake the only question that ultimately matters is ‘can we produce enough stuff?’. Which in the context of modern industrial production the answer is ‘in most cases, yes’.
Certainly in terms of producing enough housing and food for the elderly the answer is yes. The only place where there might be a limitation for the elderly is healthcare. If you gotta problem with that maybe we should adopt Cuba’s healthcare system. They have more doctors per capita than any other nation on earth in spite of decades of crippling sanctions. Before Trump reintroduced the blockade they also had higher life expectancy than the US.
My relaxation plan is suicide. Just like other millineals. Even though I’ve done way above average, there is no way I’ll ever retire. It’s literally illigical for me to not commit suicide. Who wants to be exhausted with nothing to look forward to?
That would make the wealthy very happy if you did that. They wouldn’t have to pay taxes for your retirement.
My advice – if you can’t overcome your cynicism, go on to spite those fuckers who refuse to pay you enough for a comfortable retirement. To spite those who have denied you hope for the future, who want to work you to the bone and throw you in the trash.
Fuck those people, every breath you take is one less breath for Elon.
Having said that, we can organize and fight for a kinder world, that includes better social security that can pay for a comfortable retirement with people you care about. Don’t let your cynicism devour you.
A better world is possible, take action. Join DSA or start a union or join another org. Mamdani has proven the system is not invincible.
I have tried and tried. Got three STEM degrees and 20 years experience, and still never known job security. Now I’m about to be laid off again. I’m tired boss. My family can survive if I check out, but might not if I don’t. It’s a bit of a situation.
It’s not spite to continue being exhausted so a few assholes can be rich. I feel like it’s more harmful to live. I’m also coming to terms that I’m a miserable person, so maybe I was never meant to be here in the first place.
It sounds like you have people around you who care about you. I don’t know how much I, a random stranger on the internet can help. But know you’re not alone in your feelings. Consider seeking out professional help if you’re able to.
It may very well be irrational to keep on going. The universe doesn’t guarantee us a happy existence. But understand it’s irrational from a place of ego. Other people need you for their emotional well being if nothing else.
Hope is a thing with feathers, it may return someday. We must embrace hope long past time when it is rational, so that someday it may pirch again. Even if not for us.
This video has helped me work through these feelings some.
Friend, there are millions of us millennials out here who are in the same boat. You are not alone. I am confident we will, as a generation, improve living conditions for all of us in this lifetime. Capitalism is in its death throes and it sucks that we have to deal with all of the side effects of that, but we have the power to forge new ways of living, and will likely have no choice but to do just that in the near future.
When you topple the existing power structure, it doesn’t guarantee that the next one is whichever you try ushering in. As propaganda-riddled as these points remain, the USSR a China are good examples. They went for communism but got something else in return.
Second point is that you will have to deal with propaganda. People will point to the dynamics of a power vacuum and blame the failures of handling that directly onto communism itself. So you’ll hear that communism leads to dictatorship. The truth is, change is dangerous. Communism alone doesn’t deserve the blame.
Third point is that you won’t be able to trust many people. If you have a good idea, some adversaries will try to convince you that it’s a bad one. If you have a bad idea, some adversaries will make you out to be the devil so that you loose support. Other adversaries might try to convince you that your bad idea is a good one. Either way, the goal is the same—your failure. These adversaries want their preferred way of life, not yours, and so you’re now competing.
Handling all of this is tough. If you die, who knows what person with what narrative takes your place? Assuming you dismantled the power structures that preserved the prior status quo, there’s now nothing left to steer the ship toward the good.
All of these points are making the assumption that the system we currently have is just hunky dorey. Millions die of poverty and treatable illnesses in the US every year. Isn’t that dangerous? We are all subject to the whims of a tiny minority of sadistic billionaire warmongers and business owners who have captured our news and social media and all of the branches of government. Isn’t that dangerous? You’re just going to accept that we live in a country in which there is ever growing homelessness and preventable death because you’re afraid that a people’s revolution might not turn out as expected?
That’s not at all what I said. I’m not scared. In fact, I wish I could be the one to lead it. Because I know that I would respect the risks. I can’t say that I fully understand them, but I have something more than many people from the past… I have knowledge of their results. I know that I could be careful, that I could pour my life blood into such a project and ensure its successful completion at the expense of every fiber in my body. I’d educate myself, I’d hire experts, I’d build telemetry and run tests… I’d have a damn good plan, because it would take me years in the making. I have confidence there.
My concern is that I’m actually just a nobody. So, however such a revolution should take place, I point back to what I actually said…
That’s cool but you’re coming from a very individualistic perspective. Any kind of revolution would be futile without the support of a mass labor movement that encourages workers to stand up for themselves and organize, something which needs to be the left’s main objective before we can even think of revolution. A future disciplined vanguard party will serve the role you are talking about. But without a mass movement, any revolution would be crushed by the overwhelming power of the capitalist police state.
A future disciplined vanguard party will serve the role you are talking about.
Would the correct illustration be,
Leftist party leads workers in organizing
↓
Leftist party grows stronger at negotiating with workers being an organized expression of solidarity behind them
↓
The capitalist police state resists. I assume the police state is capitalistically empowered and enforced, but not capitalist in itself. Meaning it won’t sanction the leftist party, but it will use taxpayer funds investigate, legislate, harass, and sell propaganda which advanced its agenda.
↓
Worker solidarity survives a bureaucracy that, in its default state, is procedurally guiding you toward anyconditionwhere you have less autonomy. Forms a disciplined vanguard in cooperation with the leftto further resist the state.
↓
Leftist party demands legislative change that would actually threaten the status quo, e.g., demanding an endto the Iran war, or demanding Buckley v. Valeo be amended toset spending limits on candidates, getting rid of dark money, etc.
↓
The capitalist state refuses, rejecting the authority ofany such party. Declares the vanguard a terroristic entity, investigates its members, threatens to sanction the leftist party if efforts continue. The argument is, you ought pass you legislation the old fashion way.
↓
A voter revolution, by electing someone from the Leftist party to pardon the vanguard members and issue legislation to protect worker solidarity.
↓
If the vote fails, rough… if it doesn’t, the pardons pass but the legislation gets locked up inoneof the best mannerisms of preventing change the system has: the system itself. The president tries forcing it through with tactics like Executive Orders, but that just fuels Rightist propaganda that the socialists are taking over. They’ll get the Trump defects too, claiming this is what Trump tried for fascism.
↓
The right forms their own vanguard, largely with internal help from the military, FBI, and other entities. Their goal isto “preserve democracy” or whatever. To them, the Leftist party is threatening communism — something they believe leads to dictatorship.
↓
Both sides believe they’re doing the right thing, adamantly believing the other is wrong. The risk of civil war is high. The president is seen with the responsibility of preventing civil war, but also knows this is his one shot to enact change. They probably shuffles into a lame duck position.
↓
The economy remains functional, which helps stave off a civil war. The president has accepted the pardons and recovery of the left vanguard as a win. To include having prevented executive action against the leftist party. The president is credited withhaving avoided a civil war for this long, though mostly bynot stirring the pot much. Legislation remains locked up, but that’s considered the least of our worries by election timeand we get them a second term.
↓
The second term is mostly a repeat of how the firstone ended. Civil war concerns have died down quite a bit, though both vanguards still exist. Someon the Left have grown complacent, some frustrated with the feeling that nothing has actually changed.
↓
By the endof the second term, the Right has promoted some figure as The Man toend your woes by ensuring we go back to how things were. They’ll speak of traditional values, simpler times, andforeign threats that we should stay unified against. They’ll get elected.
↓
The three branches of government are suddenly working fluidly again and President The Man finds some novel way to fuck up the economy. We now have our traditional political problems, but with opposing vanguard infrastructure and knowledge at the ready.
↓
Individual states begin organizing support forone another, forging relationships to protect themselves with the aid of whichever vanguard their politics are aligned. There are three main factions to consider now: the left, the right, and the weakening federal government.
↓
The Left eventually do something to piss the Right off. Probably withholding taxes, moving their economic assets / supply lines outof red states entirely, or maybe it’ll be water wars bythen… maybe the threat of secession.
↓
The President, aligned with the Right, try enforcing their will in the situation. The Left use their vanguard to prevent such measures. We’re perhaps one shot fired away fromfullon civil war.
↓
The second American Civil War occurs, because why wouldn’t it in conditions like that?
↓
God knows who wins. The rest of the world will move onby then. Western allies will hope we don’t turn outlike Russia. Foreign adversaries will be hoping we destroy ourselves in this process. Who knows who intervenes and how…
The problem is that a lot of Chinese elderly used housing as a storage of wealth.
A few years ago in China a guy went viral on billibilli (their version of YouTube) for covering how hard it was to be retired in China. The CCP took his Channel away and censored him. Funnily enough in the years since the CCP has made strides in increasing the payout of their social security system.
So they censored him and then responded to the criticism anyway.
Honestly --minus the censorship-- I wish the US would handle it this way. Stop relying on 401ks and housing value to backstop peoples retirement and increase social security payouts. The elderly have earned their right to take a break from the grind of capitalism. They should be relaxing and passing on what they’ve learned from their time on earth to the next generation.
Being criticized meant they were losing face. Saving face is very important in many Asian cultures.
Not gonna work in an aging society unfortunately. Social security payouts come from current taxes. If you don’t have enough young people, you can’t really fund social security. If you have a national pension fund that collects money for your retirement as YOU work, it’s not too different from a 401k, the only difference is who has control over it. Most countries don’t do that though.
Fun story: My country has a system similar to 401k (it has deferred taxation, reduced taxation and government matching, so basically free money), but you couldn’t take money out of it until retirement… Until a few years ago when conservatives changed it, so now you can take money out, but if you do, you pay full taxes and you can’t resume payments for 10 years. At least a third of the country took that opportunity. Our equivalent of social security hasn’t been significantly increased and in fact retirement age is being raised by roughly a month a year currently because otherwise the system would become unaffordable. At this point I’m considering cashing mine in in a few years only because I’m afraid that if the conservatives get enough power they’ll manage to pass some stupid ass law taking away everyone’s funds and using it to fund increased social security for their current old voters, at which point I’ll just lose all of it unlike the people who have taken theirs out.
All forms of retirement are funded by current workers. Social security is just more honest about it. A retired person is still consuming goods and services produced by the working without producing anything themselves.
You’re presenting your argument as if it were fact. Which is how conservatives always try to frame their arguments around social security.
Basic question, if its so impossible for it to work why is China able to do it?
Basic answer, it’s not impossible – it just requires a progressive taxation for social security where the rich pay into it more. Which is why conservatives are so against it.
Look man, money is fake the only question that ultimately matters is ‘can we produce enough stuff?’. Which in the context of modern industrial production the answer is ‘in most cases, yes’.
Certainly in terms of producing enough housing and food for the elderly the answer is yes. The only place where there might be a limitation for the elderly is healthcare. If you gotta problem with that maybe we should adopt Cuba’s healthcare system. They have more doctors per capita than any other nation on earth in spite of decades of crippling sanctions. Before Trump reintroduced the blockade they also had higher life expectancy than the US.
My relaxation plan is suicide. Just like other millineals. Even though I’ve done way above average, there is no way I’ll ever retire. It’s literally illigical for me to not commit suicide. Who wants to be exhausted with nothing to look forward to?
That would make the wealthy very happy if you did that. They wouldn’t have to pay taxes for your retirement.
My advice – if you can’t overcome your cynicism, go on to spite those fuckers who refuse to pay you enough for a comfortable retirement. To spite those who have denied you hope for the future, who want to work you to the bone and throw you in the trash.
Fuck those people, every breath you take is one less breath for Elon.
Having said that, we can organize and fight for a kinder world, that includes better social security that can pay for a comfortable retirement with people you care about. Don’t let your cynicism devour you.
A better world is possible, take action. Join DSA or start a union or join another org. Mamdani has proven the system is not invincible.
I have tried and tried. Got three STEM degrees and 20 years experience, and still never known job security. Now I’m about to be laid off again. I’m tired boss. My family can survive if I check out, but might not if I don’t. It’s a bit of a situation.
It’s not spite to continue being exhausted so a few assholes can be rich. I feel like it’s more harmful to live. I’m also coming to terms that I’m a miserable person, so maybe I was never meant to be here in the first place.
It sounds like you have people around you who care about you. I don’t know how much I, a random stranger on the internet can help. But know you’re not alone in your feelings. Consider seeking out professional help if you’re able to.
It may very well be irrational to keep on going. The universe doesn’t guarantee us a happy existence. But understand it’s irrational from a place of ego. Other people need you for their emotional well being if nothing else.
Hope is a thing with feathers, it may return someday. We must embrace hope long past time when it is rational, so that someday it may pirch again. Even if not for us.
This video has helped me work through these feelings some.
Friend, there are millions of us millennials out here who are in the same boat. You are not alone. I am confident we will, as a generation, improve living conditions for all of us in this lifetime. Capitalism is in its death throes and it sucks that we have to deal with all of the side effects of that, but we have the power to forge new ways of living, and will likely have no choice but to do just that in the near future.
Just need to be extremely careful.
When you topple the existing power structure, it doesn’t guarantee that the next one is whichever you try ushering in. As propaganda-riddled as these points remain, the USSR a China are good examples. They went for communism but got something else in return.
Second point is that you will have to deal with propaganda. People will point to the dynamics of a power vacuum and blame the failures of handling that directly onto communism itself. So you’ll hear that communism leads to dictatorship. The truth is, change is dangerous. Communism alone doesn’t deserve the blame.
Third point is that you won’t be able to trust many people. If you have a good idea, some adversaries will try to convince you that it’s a bad one. If you have a bad idea, some adversaries will make you out to be the devil so that you loose support. Other adversaries might try to convince you that your bad idea is a good one. Either way, the goal is the same—your failure. These adversaries want their preferred way of life, not yours, and so you’re now competing.
Handling all of this is tough. If you die, who knows what person with what narrative takes your place? Assuming you dismantled the power structures that preserved the prior status quo, there’s now nothing left to steer the ship toward the good.
All of these points are making the assumption that the system we currently have is just hunky dorey. Millions die of poverty and treatable illnesses in the US every year. Isn’t that dangerous? We are all subject to the whims of a tiny minority of sadistic billionaire warmongers and business owners who have captured our news and social media and all of the branches of government. Isn’t that dangerous? You’re just going to accept that we live in a country in which there is ever growing homelessness and preventable death because you’re afraid that a people’s revolution might not turn out as expected?
That’s not at all what I said. I’m not scared. In fact, I wish I could be the one to lead it. Because I know that I would respect the risks. I can’t say that I fully understand them, but I have something more than many people from the past… I have knowledge of their results. I know that I could be careful, that I could pour my life blood into such a project and ensure its successful completion at the expense of every fiber in my body. I’d educate myself, I’d hire experts, I’d build telemetry and run tests… I’d have a damn good plan, because it would take me years in the making. I have confidence there.
My concern is that I’m actually just a nobody. So, however such a revolution should take place, I point back to what I actually said…
That’s cool but you’re coming from a very individualistic perspective. Any kind of revolution would be futile without the support of a mass labor movement that encourages workers to stand up for themselves and organize, something which needs to be the left’s main objective before we can even think of revolution. A future disciplined vanguard party will serve the role you are talking about. But without a mass movement, any revolution would be crushed by the overwhelming power of the capitalist police state.
Would the correct illustration be,
Leftist party leads workers in organizing ↓ Leftist party grows stronger at negotiating with workers being an organized expression of solidarity behind them ↓ The capitalist police state resists. I assume the police state is capitalistically empowered and enforced, but not capitalist in itself. Meaning it won’t sanction the leftist party, but it will use taxpayer funds investigate, legislate, harass, and sell propaganda which advanced its agenda. ↓ Worker solidarity survives a bureaucracy that, in its default state, is procedurally guiding you toward any condition where you have less autonomy. Forms a disciplined vanguard in cooperation with the left to further resist the state. ↓ Leftist party demands legislative change that would actually threaten the status quo, e.g., demanding an end to the Iran war, or demanding Buckley v. Valeo be amended to set spending limits on candidates, getting rid of dark money, etc. ↓ The capitalist state refuses, rejecting the authority of any such party. Declares the vanguard a terroristic entity, investigates its members, threatens to sanction the leftist party if efforts continue. The argument is, you ought pass you legislation the old fashion way. ↓ A voter revolution, by electing someone from the Leftist party to pardon the vanguard members and issue legislation to protect worker solidarity. ↓ If the vote fails, rough… if it doesn’t, the pardons pass but the legislation gets locked up in one of the best mannerisms of preventing change the system has: the system itself. The president tries forcing it through with tactics like Executive Orders, but that just fuels Rightist propaganda that the socialists are taking over. They’ll get the Trump defects too, claiming this is what Trump tried for fascism. ↓ The right forms their own vanguard, largely with internal help from the military, FBI, and other entities. Their goal is to “preserve democracy” or whatever. To them, the Leftist party is threatening communism — something they believe leads to dictatorship. ↓ Both sides believe they’re doing the right thing, adamantly believing the other is wrong. The risk of civil war is high. The president is seen with the responsibility of preventing civil war, but also knows this is his one shot to enact change. They probably shuffles into a lame duck position. ↓ The economy remains functional, which helps stave off a civil war. The president has accepted the pardons and recovery of the left vanguard as a win. To include having prevented executive action against the leftist party. The president is credited with having avoided a civil war for this long, though mostly by not stirring the pot much. Legislation remains locked up, but that’s considered the least of our worries by election time and we get them a second term. ↓ The second term is mostly a repeat of how the first one ended. Civil war concerns have died down quite a bit, though both vanguards still exist. Some on the Left have grown complacent, some frustrated with the feeling that nothing has actually changed. ↓ By the end of the second term, the Right has promoted some figure as The Man to end your woes by ensuring we go back to how things were. They’ll speak of traditional values, simpler times, and foreign threats that we should stay unified against. They’ll get elected. ↓ The three branches of government are suddenly working fluidly again and President The Man finds some novel way to fuck up the economy. We now have our traditional political problems, but with opposing vanguard infrastructure and knowledge at the ready. ↓ Individual states begin organizing support for one another, forging relationships to protect themselves with the aid of whichever vanguard their politics are aligned. There are three main factions to consider now: the left, the right, and the weakening federal government. ↓ The Left eventually do something to piss the Right off. Probably withholding taxes, moving their economic assets / supply lines out of red states entirely, or maybe it’ll be water wars by then… maybe the threat of secession. ↓ The President, aligned with the Right, try enforcing their will in the situation. The Left use their vanguard to prevent such measures. We’re perhaps one shot fired away from full on civil war. ↓ The second American Civil War occurs, because why wouldn’t it in conditions like that? ↓ God knows who wins. The rest of the world will move on by then. Western allies will hope we don’t turn out like Russia. Foreign adversaries will be hoping we destroy ourselves in this process. Who knows who intervenes and how…