This is the worst when the film is legitimately bad, too.
Like, we all pretty much agree Gods of Egypt was a bad movie, but it’s still got defenders because they think we’re mad about the Black God and not the whole entire cast of White Guys.
Even worse is Captain Marvel. It’s just a terrible non-plot without any character growth and intrigue, it’s the female version of Green Lantern 2011, but unlike Green Lantern we can’t all agree it’s a bad movie for all the same reasons.
You said Captain Marvel, I thought Wonder Woman. Same thing though. 😅
I do understand why many people react like that to criticism of something empowering though. If you’ve been oppressed, bullied and hurt for something forever you of course see it everywhere (because that’s where the source of pain usually is/was, fucking everywhere). I’m dealing with that shit myself, it takes serious energy not to immediately jump at people when they express anything that could be transphobic. After an awful day I might only realise later how I overinterpreted a situation.
Now of course there is a small but loud minority of performative “supporters” who completely misinterpret most criticism, verbally attack people on sight and are genuinely annoying for no good reason. That’s an absolute minority though, hard to distinguish from (bad-faith) trolls and just a menace to everyone. Unfortunately you generally can’t distinguish those on social media…
A lot of people love Wonder Woman 2017 but definitely not for her own character development. She just kind of wants to do whatever she wants, escapes the island and does it, and then they shoehorn in a twist villain at the end.
I think what makes it work is the refreshing grimdark take on the war and that the character who does the development and experiences a magical adventure is this sidekick pilot dude and gets to bear witness to the antics of a goddess.
I have similar feelings about the Aquaman Sequels.
Movie studios go out of their way to amplify a few outspoken racists when people start trying to criticize movies on reasonable grounds. That’s why when all you can hear about a movie is that it’s “woke shit”, it’s because there’s nothing good about it.
Admittedly a lot of comic book characters are drawn as stoics which is hard to adapt to movie and TV without making them seem unemotional, like with Spawn, except in the Spawn movie we had Klown which more than made up for the lack of facial expression from Spawn.
A similar issue with Hellboy, except we had really good effects and the glorious voice of Ron Perlman to make it work.
I honestly think this was the strategy for The Little Mermaid. Casting Halle Bailey took all the attention off the fact that it was another soulless live-action remake of a Disney classic, and nobody wanted to criticize it because they were afraid of being lumped in with all the racist dipshits (not to mention all the free advertising they got from said racist dipshits’ angry xitter posts).
I haven’t seen it myself, but the only song I’ve heard was an annoying song sung by an annoying character, and the whole song was about how annoying she is. I could only wonder, who is this song for? The whole point of it seemed to be as off-putting as possible.
It’s cool that you enjoyed it! But there’s no need to pretend that this is a binary choice. Guardians of the Galaxy is also capeshit with a stoic woman, yet IMO Gamorra is a much more interesting character than Captain Marvel.
I also liked many parts of the movie, but some other parts were big enough misses that I’m not really interested in rewatching.
IMO Gamorra is a much more interesting character than Captain Marvel.
Eh. Gamora is the love interest of a protagonist of the movie. (Arguably the main one in GoG, obviously but still.)
Captain Marvel is the protagonist of her movie.
Idk, I’ve seen GoG movies twice at least but I haven’t rewatched Captain Marvel… maybe it’s a good time. Thanks.
But yeah for the female characters from GoG i just find Nebula a far more interesting character. We actually see her develop and see her past and she’s not just a romantic interest (even when there’s hint of a bit of that perhaps), unlike Gamora. Gamora didn’t really have an arc imo, just disliking his “daddy” and then dying. And then coming back and being a bitch more or less. Dk, seems uninteresting to me.
That might be why Gamora works and Captain Marvel doesn’t, because of human(?) connections.
She starts out the film as a lone vigilante trying to keep the infinity stone out of Thanos’ hands, is willing to harm or even kill people to do so if needed, but realizes she needs help from the others to accomplish this goal. She threatens to kill Starlord for putting moves on her and is just generally uncooperative for most of her scenes but slowly starts to trust and appreciate them.
Captain Marvel is the opposite development: She’s got a bunch of space nazi friends who do bad things together and she has no idea because of her space-magic amnesia. She communicates with the earthlings but mostly at gunpoint or under similar threat, except for the singular living woman who knows her past, and then when she discovers her powers she just goes and finishes everything on her own with 0 struggle or hesitation. It’s the extremist teenage power fantasy: become a complete recluse and kill everyone who looks at you funny.
It’s the extremist teenage power fantasy: become a complete recluse and kill everyone who looks at you funny.
Lol. Sure, but if that’s the amount of contempt we’re putting to our analysis, Gamora is the ultimate kawai waifu that the hero is destined to be with, even getting his godlike Daddies (think like an Arnie as inlaw oh wait no who has that can’t be the same person leading this movie) acceptance for his boyfriend, who is overall very average, very mid all around, but still saves the universe.
They’re all complete fantasies and based on a lot of silly wishful stuff.
“Threatens to kill Starlord for putting the moves on him” lol, as if that was even remotely an actual threat instead of thinly veiled sexual innuendo. No way, the mid tier guy has to like, make the attractive lady want them through being a bad person, despite being very mid and not having the attention of the attractive kawai waifus, overcoming it through the power of personality. But also, he’s literally a god. Well, “A celestial”. Which never gets shown, except the once, which doesn’t reflect to his abilities or strengths in any way.
Yes, the ultimate standin for the average comic fan, I guess?
But Cpt Marvel actually develops as a character. Perhaps from bad to not-so-good, but they develop. And perhaps you don’t enjoy aspects of the movie which I might, I dk. We prolly like different things, and honestly, can’t remember that much of Cpt Marvel as a plot, so it couldn’t have been that good, but I do remember enjoying the character of Cpt Marvel more than Gamora at any point. Gamora might have been interesting in some comics or smth but at least in the movie she didn’t have development, just a romantics interest of the lead who then gets killed by Arn… Big Daddy.
Or who here or in the audiences actually thought the protagonist was going murdered in the middle of a movie like that?
No-one.
Thinly veiled sexual innuendo. Not perhaps from the characters own perspective, but we’re not her, we’re looking at the movies as structure. Did you by the way know the rule “any announced plans never happen”. And even the audience doesn’t know they know it, they do. Like whenever a hero goes over their plan or something. Any actual promises or plans that are announced and “will happen” never do. So “I will kill yourself if you don’t stop your horny (average looking) ass from from honing after me” actually becomes more like “you won’t kill you no matter how despicably you stalk me”.
I wonder whoever would want to hear something like that, even unconsciously?
And even then GoG movies still have a better female character, Nebula.
I feel like the people defending Captain Marvel should be more upset with how hamfisted its attempts at pandering are. Like playing “I’m just a girl” or having someone literally tell her to smile more followd by her saying “did you just ask me to smile more?”
Representation is important, but you have to put in some effort.
Honestly I am sad that telling people to smile more has become a cultural faux pas, I would like to be able to tell everyone to smile more if not for ourselves than for each other.
This is the worst when the film is legitimately bad, too.
Like, we all pretty much agree Gods of Egypt was a bad movie, but it’s still got defenders because they think we’re mad about the Black God and not the whole entire cast of White Guys.
Even worse is Captain Marvel. It’s just a terrible non-plot without any character growth and intrigue, it’s the female version of Green Lantern 2011, but unlike Green Lantern we can’t all agree it’s a bad movie for all the same reasons.
You said Captain Marvel, I thought Wonder Woman. Same thing though. 😅
I do understand why many people react like that to criticism of something empowering though. If you’ve been oppressed, bullied and hurt for something forever you of course see it everywhere (because that’s where the source of pain usually is/was, fucking everywhere). I’m dealing with that shit myself, it takes serious energy not to immediately jump at people when they express anything that could be transphobic. After an awful day I might only realise later how I overinterpreted a situation.
Now of course there is a small but loud minority of performative “supporters” who completely misinterpret most criticism, verbally attack people on sight and are genuinely annoying for no good reason. That’s an absolute minority though, hard to distinguish from (bad-faith) trolls and just a menace to everyone. Unfortunately you generally can’t distinguish those on social media…
A lot of people love Wonder Woman 2017 but definitely not for her own character development. She just kind of wants to do whatever she wants, escapes the island and does it, and then they shoehorn in a twist villain at the end.
I think what makes it work is the refreshing grimdark take on the war and that the character who does the development and experiences a magical adventure is this sidekick pilot dude and gets to bear witness to the antics of a goddess.
I have similar feelings about the Aquaman Sequels.
Movie studios go out of their way to amplify a few outspoken racists when people start trying to criticize movies on reasonable grounds. That’s why when all you can hear about a movie is that it’s “woke shit”, it’s because there’s nothing good about it.
Captain Marvel was genuinely just a bland and uninteresting character. Similar story with Rey.
Admittedly a lot of comic book characters are drawn as stoics which is hard to adapt to movie and TV without making them seem unemotional, like with Spawn, except in the Spawn movie we had Klown which more than made up for the lack of facial expression from Spawn.
A similar issue with Hellboy, except we had really good effects and the glorious voice of Ron Perlman to make it work.
I honestly think this was the strategy for The Little Mermaid. Casting Halle Bailey took all the attention off the fact that it was another soulless live-action remake of a Disney classic, and nobody wanted to criticize it because they were afraid of being lumped in with all the racist dipshits (not to mention all the free advertising they got from said racist dipshits’ angry xitter posts).
The musical sections were so off putting to me, idk how that movie got 90% on Rotten Tomatoes if not for vote manipulation.
I haven’t seen it myself, but the only song I’ve heard was an annoying song sung by an annoying character, and the whole song was about how annoying she is. I could only wonder, who is this song for? The whole point of it seemed to be as off-putting as possible.
I loved Captain Marvel! Maybe you need to stop expecting Shakespeare from capeshit?
It’s cool that you enjoyed it! But there’s no need to pretend that this is a binary choice. Guardians of the Galaxy is also capeshit with a stoic woman, yet IMO Gamorra is a much more interesting character than Captain Marvel.
I also liked many parts of the movie, but some other parts were big enough misses that I’m not really interested in rewatching.
Eh. Gamora is the love interest of a protagonist of the movie. (Arguably the main one in GoG, obviously but still.)
Captain Marvel is the protagonist of her movie.
Idk, I’ve seen GoG movies twice at least but I haven’t rewatched Captain Marvel… maybe it’s a good time. Thanks.
But yeah for the female characters from GoG i just find Nebula a far more interesting character. We actually see her develop and see her past and she’s not just a romantic interest (even when there’s hint of a bit of that perhaps), unlike Gamora. Gamora didn’t really have an arc imo, just disliking his “daddy” and then dying. And then coming back and being a bitch more or less. Dk, seems uninteresting to me.
That might be why Gamora works and Captain Marvel doesn’t, because of human(?) connections.
She starts out the film as a lone vigilante trying to keep the infinity stone out of Thanos’ hands, is willing to harm or even kill people to do so if needed, but realizes she needs help from the others to accomplish this goal. She threatens to kill Starlord for putting moves on her and is just generally uncooperative for most of her scenes but slowly starts to trust and appreciate them.
Captain Marvel is the opposite development: She’s got a bunch of space nazi friends who do bad things together and she has no idea because of her space-magic amnesia. She communicates with the earthlings but mostly at gunpoint or under similar threat, except for the singular living woman who knows her past, and then when she discovers her powers she just goes and finishes everything on her own with 0 struggle or hesitation. It’s the extremist teenage power fantasy: become a complete recluse and kill everyone who looks at you funny.
Lol. Sure, but if that’s the amount of contempt we’re putting to our analysis, Gamora is the ultimate kawai waifu that the hero is destined to be with, even getting his godlike Daddies (think like an Arnie as inlaw oh wait no who has that can’t be the same person leading this movie) acceptance for his boyfriend, who is overall very average, very mid all around, but still saves the universe.
They’re all complete fantasies and based on a lot of silly wishful stuff.
“Threatens to kill Starlord for putting the moves on him” lol, as if that was even remotely an actual threat instead of thinly veiled sexual innuendo. No way, the mid tier guy has to like, make the attractive lady want them through being a bad person, despite being very mid and not having the attention of the attractive kawai waifus, overcoming it through the power of personality. But also, he’s literally a god. Well, “A celestial”. Which never gets shown, except the once, which doesn’t reflect to his abilities or strengths in any way.
Yes, the ultimate standin for the average comic fan, I guess?
But Cpt Marvel actually develops as a character. Perhaps from bad to not-so-good, but they develop. And perhaps you don’t enjoy aspects of the movie which I might, I dk. We prolly like different things, and honestly, can’t remember that much of Cpt Marvel as a plot, so it couldn’t have been that good, but I do remember enjoying the character of Cpt Marvel more than Gamora at any point. Gamora might have been interesting in some comics or smth but at least in the movie she didn’t have development, just a romantics interest of the lead who then gets killed by Arn… Big Daddy.
She turned his head and held a knife to his neck…
Exactly. Sexual innuendo.
Or who here or in the audiences actually thought the protagonist was going murdered in the middle of a movie like that?
No-one.
Thinly veiled sexual innuendo. Not perhaps from the characters own perspective, but we’re not her, we’re looking at the movies as structure. Did you by the way know the rule “any announced plans never happen”. And even the audience doesn’t know they know it, they do. Like whenever a hero goes over their plan or something. Any actual promises or plans that are announced and “will happen” never do. So “I will kill yourself if you don’t stop your horny (average looking) ass from from honing after me” actually becomes more like “you won’t kill you no matter how despicably you stalk me”.
I wonder whoever would want to hear something like that, even unconsciously?
And even then GoG movies still have a better female character, Nebula.
Same. We had fun, and the music was great! Also young Samuel L. Jackson!
I feel like the people defending Captain Marvel should be more upset with how hamfisted its attempts at pandering are. Like playing “I’m just a girl” or having someone literally tell her to smile more followd by her saying “did you just ask me to smile more?”
Representation is important, but you have to put in some effort.
Honestly I am sad that telling people to smile more has become a cultural faux pas, I would like to be able to tell everyone to smile more if not for ourselves than for each other.
A good alternative is to find ways to make people smile instead :)
Fuck you. Don’t tell people to smile more; give them a reason to smile! Tell a joke! Be genuinely kind!