Elon Musk’s EV company is running a social-media campaign blaming European traffic deaths on red tape. Its safety claims don’t hold up, experts say, but regulators are starting to buckle.
That’s a new way to spell bribe…
Why are people still buying those Nazi-mobiles??
Deplorians
Swasticars
Wankpanzers
Just good i guess. Good and pretty cheap
There was research done in norway that 3 out of 4 tesla owners buy a new tesla when they need a new car
Doesn’t Norway have a 100% tax on non-electric cars or something? Be interesting to see if Tesla stays that popular as more options come to market.
There’s plenty of options available in the ev space
If you manage to get a good one. A large section of them are absolute garbage.
Because they are the best. It’s not that deep?
The best at what? Widest panel gaps? Most racist CEO? Most insufferable owners?
Look, I know they’re generally pretty decent cars (ignoring the CEO), especially as cheap old used EVs as they’ve been around forever, but calling them the best is really dumb.
Porsche EVs drive better. Rivians do truck things better. Hummers are, uh, larger. Chevy has the longest range truck (also the longest range EV I think?) Many vehicles charge faster. Kia has a 3 row SUV EV. Hyundai does the ioniq 5/6 that are better in a bunch of ways. Lucids are generally better in every way aside from somehow being buggier. I’m sure I missed something. Teslas aren’t really the best at anything, they’re just fine at everything.
People driving don’t notice panel gaps. Also neither of my teslas had them.
There’s a lot to unload in your comparison but i feel like you’re cherry picking examples, porche does not ride better than model s, it does ride better than model 3, you’d hope so since 3 is not even half the cost.
You compare a lot of trucks, fair enough, we haven’t even got CT here and neither of the ones you’ve listed, maybe those are truly the best cars ever made… but not ones I’ve ever even seen.
But charge speeds? Charging non tesla costs 3x as much here. Also this whole race to charge speeds is also a flawed comparison, i charge handful of times in a year. Teslas in UK don’t require smart charger to get the low tariff home rate. The way they work, when car is charging, your whole house electricity costs 7p instead of 28 to 32p per kW. Not having to spend 1k on charger and having MORE time on this cheap rate is how my electricity bill dropped after getting an EV. I care not that my car is charging for 6 to 12 hours when I’m at home sleeping.
I have driven hyundai, hondas, ford, mg, polestar, volvo, porche, byd, geely, xpeng, bmw and audi EVs… it is something I’m very interested in. There are quality of life that Tesla have which are still unmatched… I’ve yet to find a single car that’s comparable to my model s. Model 3, sure, there were cars which were more comfortable than it, but are a more premium price but not a single one has driven better than model s, porche was close but then the list of drawbacks with porche is long…
As an overall package, Tesla is unbeatable, hence they are most selling by a big margin.
As to how i drive all these cars? I live in dealership hot zone, it’s a fun activity going for 2h test drive on a weekend. We also attend car shows which have test drives too. If something happens to my model s and there is just no option for used? i would sooner downgrade to a 3 than pick any of the other cars I’ve seen/tried.
Fair enough. They are decent vehicles. I will make one point - I said Porsches drive better, not that they ride better. Teslas are still pretty much muscle cars in the fact that they aren’t that fun to drive except for flooring it in a straight line.
Are we talking about the Taycan? I’ve driven the turbo s and while it was a great sporty ride. I’m not sure if it felt better than model s with adaptive air suspension… close, sure, maybe corners were better in the porche…
But the problem is the battery range of that whole drivetrain is just rubbish, same goes for e tron which has the same base. The range was abysmal. One pedal driving was worse for sure. I dislike cars which will roll and that has put sever sore points into my drive. Comfort and interior was top notch. Same with space and even the boot is great. It is a cool car, just priced like a porche.
I drive one. It’s a slightly older model, generation 3 hardware, back from the days when everybody loved Elon (before he threw in with the GOP).
The car is fantastic. FSD is fantastic. Love the guy or hate him, it’s the best car I’ve ever owned by a significant margin.
As someone who actually drives FSD, and the older version of it too, it is very good. On the highway it drives better than I do. At least once it has saved me from what otherwise would have been a serious collision- I was in the middle lane minding my own business, suddenly the car slams on the brakes and swerves into the left lane. I’m thinking it’s lost its mind, when a pickup truck comes barreling straight from an on-ramp into the left lane. Had the car not reacted it’s entirely likely they would have crashed into me.
I don’t excuse Elon’s politics. I think he has done a lot of good for our civilization with SpaceX and Tesla and bringing about the era of actual electric cars (which previously were perpetually always 10 years away). At the same time, I think his efforts to get Trump reelected have been extremely harmful. He does not tolerate incompetence in his companies and I don’t understand why he tolerates it in his politics.
So it’s valid to argue the guy is a net negative on society, it’s valid to argue he has helped benefit politicians who resemble Nazis, and it’s certainly valid to criticize his ‘from the heart’ gesture that really did look an awful lot like a Nazi salute.
The guy still makes an excellent car.
The car is fantastic. FSD is fantastic. Love the guy or hate him, it’s the best car I’ve ever owned by a significant margin.
As a car guy, this is wild, and makes me question if you’ve driven other electric cars. IMO Teslas aren’t that much fun to drive compared to other electric cars, and with the FSD thing that makes me think they’re primarily targeted at people who don’t like driving anyway. Which is fine, but like, IMO they have slow, grainy steering and overall feel like tanks in the bad way.
I think he has done a lot of good for our civilization with SpaceX and Tesla and bringing about the era of actual electric cars (which previously were perpetually always 10 years away)
I don’t think Musk made electric cars happen any faster. The delay was technical, caused by lack of lithium batteries, older batteries just couldn’t do the range. Once there were lithium batteries, lots of companies started making practical electric cars. We saw a renaissance in portable power tools at the same time for the same reason, and Musk isn’t involved in that industry at all (although if he was half the “industrialist” he claims to be, I think he would be).
He was right about the need to build out big capacity for building lithium batteries and charging stations, but hardly alone in saying this stuff, and mostly appropriated government money for these things rather than using his own.
The guy still makes an excellent car.
Not according to the crash statistics… 21% higher than average death rate in crashes (coming in 21st out of 26 compared brands) and that’s 2023 numbers, so before the cybertruck.
thank you for an intelligent comment that’s not just DURR ELON BAD
I’ve driven a bunch of electric cars. In terms of driving feel, Tesla is good but not great. The suspension (pre-refresh model Y) is stiff without feeling particularly sporty, the steering is decent but not amazing, accel is above average, and I like the one pedal driving but some people hate that. The interior (of any of them, including the ‘luxury’ model X/S) lacks some creature comforts compared to many others in the price range. If not for the low CG reducing body roll in turns it’d probably not be nearly as fun to drive.
In terms of overall ownership experience though, it’s fantastic. I like driving, but the few points I lose in not having something more sporty like a Taycan or Volvo XC40 EV (which is super fun to drive) or a Polestar 2 (even more fun to drive) is made up for by everything else. The software is fantastic and it’s continually updated OTA with actual features, unlike traditional automakers. There’s an absolute minimum of bullshit upsells- no subscribing for heated seats for example, only subscriptions are the connectivity package and FSD. The app and phone key work 100%. Unlike virtually every other automaker, Tesla isn’t data mining my driving and text messages to sell the data to insurance companies and marketers.
And quite honestly- FSD is a huge part of the package. I love driving, but I drive a lot and I don’t like having to when I’m not in the mood. If I’m blasting around some twisty roads on a nice day of course I’m driving. But if I’m on the highway for 2 hours, that’s just a boring slog.
Finally there’s service. Tesla comes to me for most things, and I’ve needed VERY little. The service manual is free online. There’s NO upsell.
Speaking of upsell- the process of buying the car was BY FAR the best of any car I’ve ever bought. There was ZERO pressure, just people available to answer questions. And no dealer markup, no ‘market adjustment’, no haggling over price, no four-square scam to get me to pay more than I want to, no page full of dealer options. Here’s the car, here’s the price, put in a credit card and show up with a bank check on delivery day. I’ve purchased a couple of ‘nice’ cars in my life, from ‘good’ dealers who I really like, but I’d pick the Tesla experience EVERY time.
If I wanted an EV purely on how it drives- based on what I’ve driven so far I’d go for a Polestar 2 or a Taycan.
As a practical vehicle- Tesla all the way.
I don’t think Musk made electric cars happen any faster.
Disagree. I watched the EV space for a long time. Read some historical articles- even going back into the 1990s electric cars were always ‘10 years away’. Batteries WERE always the reason. But until Tesla, every car company was focused on large format cells. GM did large format NiMH for the EV1, and it worked pretty good, except the instant they were allowed to they sold that tech to Chevron who only licensed it out to companies not building BEVs. Same thing with lithium- large format lithium had a lot of problems including runaway safety issues that hadn’t been solved.
Elon’s contribution was to make a pack full of 18650 laptop cells, coddle it with great thermal management and armor, and call the result a vehicle battery. He saw that innovation was happening a lot faster in the small cells than in large format cells, so those were what he’d use.
It was one of those ‘that can’t possibly be right… but it seems to work better than anything else’ type things.
So back in 2006, when legacy automakers were saying profitable EVs were not physically possible, Tesla was making money selling Roadsters. In 2012 when legacy automakers were saying a profitable mass market EV wasn’t possible, Tesla was making money selling Model S.
As far as I’m concerned, Tesla essentially embarrassed legacy automakers into building EVs.charging stations, but hardly alone in saying this stuff, and mostly appropriated government money for these things rather than using his own.
I’d point out that many companies have taken government funds to build EV chargers, none anywhere near as successful as Tesla. There’s 2x more Superchargers than all other DC fast chargers combined. And that’s NOT because nobody wanted to build them.
21% higher than average death rate in crashes (coming in 21st out of 26 compared brands)
Love to see that stat? Everything I’ve read suggests the exact opposite.
Sry but Elon bought Tesla and removed the two engineer’s who actually built the original Tesla Roadster. Elon could just not exist and we’d be better off.
Are you referring to Martin Eberhard, the one who kept pushing for the 2-speed transmission even after multiple attempts at it failed?
He does not tolerate incompetence in his companies
He is the incompetence in his companies. All his success is riding on the shoulders of people who actually know what they’re doing in spite of him. There’s numerous examples of him barging into things and fucking them up when he thinks he knows better. He’s a fucking idiot and always has been.
There’s numerous examples of him barging into things and fucking them up when he thinks he knows better.
Correct. Twitter and his various maladventures with Trump are prime examples.
He’s a fucking idiot and always has been.
Incorrect. Provably incorrect.
SpaceX was basically all him.
Tesla was basically all him- he started out as just an investor but when Eberhard was screwing up the Roadster’s gearbox he took over, made the (obvious in hindsight) to replace the finicky shifting transmission with a simple reduction gear and a larger motor for torque, and got the car out the door. Model S, X, 3, Y, all him.
Elon is good at some things, bad at realizing what he’s not good at, VERY bad at understanding that other people’s feelings matter to the goal of getting things done.
Elon is good at some things, bad at realizing what he’s not good at, VERY bad at understanding that other people’s feelings matter to the goal of getting things done.
That’s what makes him incompetent. He’s a contrarian that got lucky a few times. The vast majority of his existence is him being a fucking idiot and an asshole. On top of that he’s a nazi. Just look at his twitter account.
SpaceX was basically all him.
Anecdotally, I’ve personally spoken with many former & current SpaceX employees who would disagree with you. He’s mostly known for slowing shit down by interrupting their work with “disruptive” new layouts for assembly lines and then fucking off for another six months.
Yeah I’ve talked to a number of ex-Elon company people also.
He is damn near impossible to work for. I’ve heard him called ‘the pigeon’- he swoops in, craps on whatever you’ve been pouring your life into for 6 months, and flies off. He has zero sense of work life balance, made only slightly tolerable by the fact that however hard he drives his people he drives himself even harder. Dude’s the richest man in the world and he lived in an off the shelf modular house for a few years because he couldn’t be bothered spending the time to buy a real house, sleeps under his desk half the time.
He also sets near impossible goals and then gets his people to meet them. You read about Raptor engine evolution, what’s less discussed was the insane pressure from Elon to make them more powerful and easier to build. Less machine time, avoiding exotic materials like Inconel, more chamber pressure, etc. But here we are.
Or let me ask this— if Elon wasn’t a factor, then why didn’t anyone before SpaceX a. produce a privately owned orbital rocket, and b. produce any sort of reusability in an orbital rocket? If Elon wasn’t a factor, then why didn’t anyone before Tesla sell a full production electric car?
He’s been a shithead billio his entire life.
He did not make the car. He just bought the company.
I’ve been following Tesla pretty closely since long before the first Roadster came out. This is false.
There were a few co-founders of Tesla. One of them had opened an LLC. Elon and others bought into that because it was faster than forming a new LLC from scratch.
The original Roadster was mostly Martin Eberhard in charge, Elon was a backseat investor who wasn’t very involved with the design. Eberhard’s design used a two-speed gearbox- a real engineering challenge to make a gearbox that can shift gears under load at 15,000 RPM. They went through multiple designs which all failed reliability tests after significant engineering expense. After a couple of those is when Elon stepped in, pushed out Eberhard, and took over the company. Elon then decided the car would have a single reduction gear, no shifting, and a larger motor to provide the necessary torque. In hindsight this was the right decision as pretty much every EV today uses the same setup.
Elon was then significantly involved in the design and engineering of the Model S, X, 3, etc.
If you want more info search archive.org for the Tesla blog any pre-Roadster timeframe.
Okay now this is just an ad.
So I don’t get to have an opinion you disagree with without being a shill?
To be completely fair, your post that I commented on did not conatain an opinion.
Okay fair opinion is the wrong word- it contains what I believe to be provable facts.
Would you care to disprove them? Or is their incorrectness simply your opinion? :)
it’s the best car I’ve ever owned
you own nothing. you drive a remote controllable car with a helpful built-in surveillance system affecting people not only in it, but outside everywhere you drive.
Do you read the news?
Of the various privacy invading shit that goes into cars, Tesla is probably the least bad.
Do you read the news?
yes, that’s why I said that
Do you read the news?
yes, that’s why I said that
Like Tesla personnel sharing video from their customers from inside?
Sharing video with law enforcement as well? Without a judge having to sign off on it?
That Tesla?
TBH as a non-Tesla owner, Teslas are the only brand of cars that I’ve encountered that light up and verbally threaten me that they’re recording me when I walk by.
Try putting radar units in like every other car company uses already. Oh, but those cost money.
It’s not about money, it’s because Musk thinks self driving cars should work with only vision because human drivers do so as well, and nobody was able to push back against him.
For other great Musk driven design decisions, see the Cybertruck. And IIRC the lack of physical door handles as the frameless doors have to open the window a little first or the weather seal gets damaged.
It’s that sort of thinking that makes me realise how he a trauma get on so well (when their not falling out)
the windows retracting to open the doors is pretty standard on cars nowadays
still stupid, though. my '08 just pushes the window up against the weather seal and it still works perfectly fine
One benefit of it getting cold in Canada now is those stupid ass trucks are getting off the streets. They absolutely cannot survive a Canadian winter.
What do you mean a bare metal shelled vehicle can’t withstand the ice melt chemicals used in a country/region with actual seasons?
There’s no greater feeling than out-wintering a broken down nazimobile in my beater compact
Stahp! I can only get so erect!
It’s still about money because he sold cars with only cameras to get FSD.
If he admits that can’t work now, he’s opening himself up for lawsuits.
It’s wild to me that so many people thought (and still think) that he’s a genius.
At best he started on third and caught a lucky break and stole home. I saw through him when he first became a big public figure like 15 years ago. I don’t know how so many people I know, several who I thought were smarter than me, fell for his schtick.
Wasn’t that just his excuse because the radar units were unavailable during the pandemic’s supply chain issues?
Tinfoil hat time: musk demanded vision based self driving to create proto-flock.
The window thing is pretty common I think. My 2008 mini used to do it
That doesn’t make it good or sane. The car needs to have power for the door to open? What?
Except now every other company is switching to camera based system? So if radar is this good, why are companies moving away from it?
You might’ve mixed up radar and lidar. There’re a few Chinese makers who’ve cut out using the lidar, but absolutely nobody other than the Muskrat are dropping the radar in favor of shitty cameras who become useless the moment they get dirty. Which does happen outside. Especially in winter, which is coming.
No they aren’t. Everybody except Tesla uses both.
Geely and xpeng, the two other alleged market leaders are already using camera only or in oricess of it.
RIVIAN is also already not going to use them once they’re done collecting their initial training data.
So who is this “everybody”?
there’s no FSD because it only exists in marketing language
What are you talking about?
Do you also believe his gesture was “my heart goes out to you”? Also do you remember when he said FSD would be ready in a few months….in 2013?
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No, those were definitely nazi salutes, made in public, at the end of a speech
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Pioneering tech leaders often overpromise things, doesn’t mean it cannot be ready today
It’s a glorified cruise control. Uses error prone cameras. Only worked in certain areas and in the US, which has traditionally ridiculous vehicle regulations (they even approved a fucking razor blade with wheels).
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Does FSD exist in the US? If so, show your safety records in the US.
Oh wait…
Oh wait what?
They’reTheir safety record in the US isn’t good. The news of a crash by the cars happen regularly.
Enough bribes and they’ll cave. They just need to pretend they won’t.
That seems awful expensive to sell 38 cars. Isn’t demand for Teslas still obliterated in all the EU nations?
There’s been a significant rebound over the past six months or so…
Good. Tesla’s FSD seems to be easily the best in the market. https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-fsd-driver-assistance-system-best-tech-2026
It’s good that EU is careful about this stuff, which is why the piloting is happening in a limited set of countries. But when it has been tested, why keep putting hurdles on the technology? People are literally dying in preventable human-caused car accidents every day.
People are literally dying in preventable human-caused car accidents every day.
NHTSA reports human drivers to 1.9 incidents per million miles, and self driving cars companies refuse to give the mileage data. They are forced to give incidents rate data, and we can somehow estimate their milage and then we arrive at over 12 incidents per million miles for self driving levels 3-5.
Oh in 2025 NHTSA changed reporting requirements, to more relaxed, with less supervision and oversight, and no pushback or controls, laid off 25% of workers and changed it’s director to Morrison who was at the time Apple Self Driving Car Chief Council.
And even now it’s almost twice the rate of human driver per million miles.
