Mainstream politicians express alarm while lead candidate in Saxony-Anhalt welcomes congratulations from Elon Musk
Mainstream politicians around Europe have expressed alarm after the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) swept to a historic state election victory in Germany, while nationalist figures cheered the result as a mandate for change.
While falling just short of an absolute majority, the AfD surged into first place in the Saxony-Anhalt state election on Sunday, exit polls showed, putting the far right within reach of power at the state level for the first time since the second world war.
As usual, the conservatives are given a pass and then liberals assigned all the blame.
This place is absolute fucking joke.
No they aren’t. The liberals and conservatives are both being blamed because they are both part of the problem. 2 sides of the same coin.
Liberals are being assigned blame because they are worthy of blame.
Conservatives know they are to blame, telling them that does nothing. Liberals think they are helping the working class and at the very least are discomforted when confronted with the reality of their actions (sometimes).
We don’t have liberals or a two party system or whatever you have in the US.
This dumb Propaganda shit on lemmy that the left is to blame for the fascism that people voted for really bores me by now.
None of this is the lefts fault.
I’m not American and you do have liberals, and liberals aren’t the left.
Our so-called liberals are the FDP.
But this term means very different things here, than it does in US politics. But you’re right: they are definitely not the left.
Wrong, all political parties in Germany (except for parts of Linke and BSW) are economically liberal.
But you also don’t have any left at all, which doesn’t help.
Even fucking bsw has a point when calling die linke just another socdem party. And neither of these party is even doing well in the urns.
From a French PoV, German politics are really cooked. Overton window is more right wing than us, and the votes are also more concentrated to the right.
BSW should figure out who they even are before they sling any shit. They are putins Nazicommunist party and you need to mentally unwell to vote for them.
I don’t have a problem with the socialists going socdem because there is presumably a large gap there.
The Socdems by name sold out more than 25 years ago.
In the US, the neoliberals have held power over the Democrat party since Ronald Reagan was president in the 1980s. Liberal is shorthand for neoliberal and are considered left here. They are very much to blame for the current state of the US. They offshored jobs, busted unions, weakened education, and cut welfare programs to benefit the elites just like the conservatives have.
Surely liberal isn’t short for neoliberal.
It is in american parlance. When you hear right-wingers rally against “liberals” they are talking about neoliberals. If they meant classical liberals they’d be talking about themselves.
no it is not. in common american parlance, “liberal” refers to the democratic party and is treated like a left-wing position. only leftists use “liberal” (well, “libs”) to mean “neoliberal.” the latter is obviously way more correct, but that doesn’t mean the average person uses it that way, the average person is politically illiterate.
Nah. You just don’t understand how uneducated, indoctrinated, and mentally-ill American conservatives are.
90+% of them absolutely have no fucking idea what the difference between a classical liberal or neoliberal is. Conservatives are closer to neoliberals than classical liberals. They don’t care though, because they’ve been indoctrinated with the mental illness of fascism.
Unless you live in North Korea you’ve got liberals. It’s good to learn some basic definitions for words before running your mouth. If you live in Germany, the CDU, SDP, FDP and Greens are all liberal parties.
Nobody is giving conservatives a pass. But we aren’t going to solve the problem if we don’t spend time understanding why people are voting the way they’re voting in an international trend, and it isn’t that everyone just became a lot more racist overnight; it’s because in many countries, the reality has become choosing between a more social liberal or social conservative neoliberal party, and one would need to be blind at this point to not see it’s the second part of that descriptor people are done with.
I’m saying this as someone who is absolutely a lesser of the evils voter and advocated for such; but I also understand what’s actually driving support for people like Trump, AfD, and the like, and it isn’t a surge in intolerance; it’s material conditions, like it almost always is.
The criticism gets directed at the center left more than the center right because they are the ones more politically viable to change, or at least that’s been the view. Conservatives concentrating wealth and power in the hands of a few is itself a conservative position in the traditional sense. Any party claiming to be left should be antithetical towards that.
Don’t mistake that for giving conservatives a pass. They’re worse, I’ll absolutely vote center left neoliberal if they are the only alternative; but convincing them is to fundamentally change their views more than a center left party.
There may be a gap here in the definition of “liberal”. Liberalism is a political philosophy that also encompasses most traditional conservatives. It is different from the colloquial usage. It’s loosely defined as the belief in individual freedoms, including the right to private property. It is inherently capitalist and therefore socialists, communists and anarchists generally do not consider them to be of the left.
…uhhh a socialist and a communist are the exact same thing…
Youre right about everything elsee though.
Often conflated but Marx and Engels themselves draw a distinction between socialism and communism. They consider socialism a stepping stone to communism.
…umm ya. Socialism was created by Marx because he knew that humans, as stupid , genocidal , and self destructive as we are, would have difficulty embracing as good of an idea as comkunism so he proposed that socialism is a ‘transitory thing’ or transitory phase that leads to a communistic sociaety because as we have seen a trillion times whenone society embraces socialism anither capitalistic society will genocide the people there or even force the people embracing socialism to change their minf
We saw this in Korea at the hands of the canadians and americans, We saw this in Indonesia at the hands of the amedicans again. We saw this in Vietnam at thr hands of the french , then the japanese , then the americans. We saw this with the Congolese a tthe hands of the belgians and americans . And even in CHile at the hands of the americans
We have seen this exact scenario play out snd we will continue time and time again to see this scenario play out…
Socialist ideas predate Marx. Look up Robert Owen for example. Engels talks about earlier socialist philosophies in “Socialism: Utopian and Scientific”. It’s not a very long book and it’s an interesting read. I think it’s an extract from a longer work.
If ANY person calls themselves a socialist or ‘communist’ and hasnt read this yet ? They belong in a psych ward in my opinion. The only type of socialism that can possibly exist is scientific socialism.
. The collective scientific material conditions and scientific psychological conditions of the average persons should be what spurs the majority of the people into a deathly amalgamation into lethal force and lethal action to create a socialistic society or a socialistic world that eternally executes the bourgeoisies . And also I beleive that itlf the people , through their collective experience, want to create a deathly amalgamation to create a lethal force that creates a world thst leads to self-destructive nuclear holocaust ? So be it. I wouldnt support the second scenario but I would also be powerless to stop it. Who are we to to stpp the majority of people once theyve set their mind to something? You as one random person or as one random intellectual or as one random billionaire cannot slam down your ideas onto the people and make them follow cause youre just one weak insignifisct person and they outnumber you . It is up to the people to rise up collectively in their million and even billions to come together to get something that they want from the groups that they outnumber.
“Always remember , the sheep outnumber the worlves. Always have and always will.” (Idont remember ewho said this quote but they coooooked)
Thats basically the gist I got from that article
So thats why I believe (and Im fucking right) thst most people today are VERY okay with the world we live in today. Because if most people were not okay with the world thst we have today, why have most of the people in most countries not amalgamated into a lethal , destructive, heavily-disruptive force that stops the economy and changes the world so that our demands change from our policymakers ans billionaires ? We The People, We The Workers outnumber billionaires po liticians, army officials, police officers and sepcial ops operatives in the thousands and thousands. We could EAAAASILY win ANY war against them… but people arent doing that…so that must mean thst most people are OK with the current genocidal and crapitalistic world we live in today lol. Nobody has ever been able to refute me when I bring this point up. And nobody shall ever be able to refute this.
People ALWAYS talk talk talk about ‘oH PolItiCiaNs SucK’ ‘oh bIllIoNAIreS aND OlIgArChS SucK’ ‘WeNeEd To ChAnGe OuR cuRrEnT aDopTiOnS aNd foSteR cArE sYsTeMs sO cHilDreN aRe SafEr’ ‘We gOtTa cHanGe ThInGs CaUse OuR jUstIcrE SysTeMs sUcKs!1!1!1’ . If you go to the comments sections of ANY trrue crime video on youtube youll A.L.W.A.Y.S. see comments like these … but then these same people never DO anything to ensure that this ‘change’ is brought about… hmmm …funny thing that lol
"Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. Fck Hope. Because if it is really just the fault of the politicians then where are all the other bright people of conscience? Where are all the bright, honest, intelligent Americans ready to step in and save the nation and lead the way? We don’t have people like that in this country. Everybody’s at the mall, scratchin’ his ass, pickin’ his nose, takin’ his credit card out of his fanny pack and buyin’ a pair of sneakers with lights in them. So, I have solved this little political dilemma for myself in a very simple way. On Election Day, I stay home. I don’t vote. Fck ’em! Fck ’em! I don’t vote. Two reasons. Two reasons I don’t vote. First of all, it’s meaningless. This country was bought and sold and paid for a long time ago. This shit they shuffle around every four years? Pfft! Pfft! It doesn’t mean a fcking thing. And secondly, I don’t vote because I believe if you vote you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around, I know. They say, ‘Well, if you don’t vote you have no right to complain.’ But where’s the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people and they get into office and screw everything up, well, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem. You voted them in. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand…who did not vote…who did not vote…who, in fact, did not even leave the house on Election Day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with. So, I know that a little later on this year you’re gunna have another one of those really swell presidential elections that you like so much [Bill Clinton v. Bob Dole]. You enjoy yourselves; it’ll be a lot of fun. I’m sure as soon as the election is over your country will improve immediately. As for me, I’ll be home on that day, doing essentially the same thing as you. The only difference is, when I get finished jerking it, I’m gunna have a little something to show for it, folks.” – George Carlin
If youve been voting in assholes agains and again and again amd again for centuries and centuries then …maybe voting is useless and you need to resort to more ‘direct’ forms of interventions when you want to see things change in your community …
If you split yourself off the “left in the widest sense” you have 5 percent of the votes and you are essentially meaningless. Stuck to your values but meaningless.
The left does not need more splitting while the right manages to rally behind one or two people.
Unless your election system is FPTP, I don’t see a problem with doing just 5%.
As I say, liberals believe in capitalism by definition. The impact of your vote once every few years in an election under this system pales in comparison to the influence that the owner class have due to their wealth and power. This is fundamental. This is why you get all the anti-liberal sentiment from anti-capitalists.
Furthermore you talk about convincing some percentage of voters in order to change the system. The early turnout figure for this election is 54% and that’s considered high… What of the non voters?
When the home team who is on defense just allows goal after goal with no defense, and scoring no goals of their own… that’s a bad team and deserves criticism if they’re the bulwark defenders who are supposed to oppose fascism. Fascists are winning and that is the fault of liberals for a lack of opposition.
Exactly.
If I hire a body guard and theyve allowed me to get shot 69 times over the last 20 years and they NEVER change their tactics or our tactics to keep me and them safe… what do you think Im eventually gonna think about them? …
because liberals are the prime reason of fascists rise in power. They pretend to be good while oiling the fascist machine
“There has never been and will ever be anything int he Western Hemisphere more dangerous than a White liberal” - Malcolm X
He would have been more correct if he talked of EVERY liberal.
You can stop worrying about nuclear weapons as the most destructive thing on the planet today , because we ALL know itll be the moderates snd liberals who will be pressing the very buttons to launch all the nuikes lol.
Liberals are fascist collaborators and work on behalf of the elites. The sooner liberals are gone the faster we can fix these issues. Conservatives are just plain evil.
Good luck getting more than 5 percent of the votes. 👍 We’ll talk then
You must not be from the US then. It’s already happening here. Many progressive candidates are either beating the liberals or nearly beating them. I expect that to keep happening too. I was a lifelong liberal voter and even voted for Kamala in '24, but I won’t make that mistake again. Liberals do not have the best interests of the working class in mind and they’ve made that crystal clear. Hell, they don’t even have the best interests of human life in mind.
"Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. Fck Hope. Because if it is really just the fault of the politicians then where are all the other bright people of conscience? Where are all the bright, honest, intelligent Americans ready to step in and save the nation and lead the way? We don’t have people like that in this country. Everybody’s at the mall, scratchin’ his ass, pickin’ his nose, takin’ his credit card out of his fanny pack and buyin’ a pair of sneakers with lights in them. So, I have solved this little political dilemma for myself in a very simple way. On Election Day, I stay home. I don’t vote. Fck ’em! Fck ’em! I don’t vote. Two reasons. Two reasons I don’t vote. First of all, it’s meaningless. This country was bought and sold and paid for a long time ago. This shit they shuffle around every four years? Pfft! Pfft! It doesn’t mean a fcking thing. And secondly, I don’t vote because I believe if you vote you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around, I know. They say, ‘Well, if you don’t vote you have no right to complain.’ But where’s the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people and they get into office and screw everything up, well, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem. You voted them in. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand…who did not vote…who did not vote…who, in fact, did not even leave the house on Election Day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with. So, I know that a little later on this year you’re gunna have another one of those really swell presidential elections that you like so much [Bill Clinton v. Bob Dole]. You enjoy yourselves; it’ll be a lot of fun. I’m sure as soon as the election is over your country will improve immediately. As for me, I’ll be home on that day, doing essentially the same thing as you. The only difference is, when I get finished jerking it, I’m gunna have a little something to show for it, folks.” – George Carlin
If youve been voting in assholes agains and again and again amd again for decades and decades and decades… then …maybe voting is useless and you need to resort to more ‘direct’ forms of interventions when you want to see things change in your community …
But either the Democrats need to be taken over completely, MAGA style or lose so much that another party takes their spot in the two party system. Which is difficult.
These monolithic blocks exist because they are not constantly under attack in that system.
As liberals and conservatives make life worse for the working class they’ll start to realize both of those options are bad. Unfortunately many will have to suffer before they come to that conclusion.
That’s the point, that a lot would have to happen
Who are the liberals if not the conservatives?
Sometimes I think it must be a psyops by the billionaires to divide and demoralize the left. Then I remember some people are just so dumb.
Libs aren’t left, lmao.
QED
Literally the start of left politics is anti-capitalist. Literally, liberals aren’t leftists.
I recognize that “the left” in America is the democratic party. That’s a you problem.
And thats kinda where the term ‘liberal’ comes from
It means that they want to ‘LIBERALly restructure and readjust the capitalistic economy and societies so thst these ecoonomies and society favour them and their cronies’
There has NEVER been a liberal ideology that has explicitly stated we shall destroy capitalism eternally. They always say ‘structurally readjust capitalism’
Meanwhile the socialists and anarchists are the ONLY people who have ever said they want to eternally destroy capitalistic economids and societies to thst they favour the workers collectively or that they favour individual , loose communities .
Anyone who calls themselves a ‘leftist’ but isnt an anarchist or socialist can EASILY be outed as a rightist with a. few questions. I have never encountered a single person that has proven that Im wrong about this. And I never will lol.
Well yeah because it’s definitional, lol.
I’m not in America, never lived there, will never live there.
Seriously, it’s like you guys insist on being unpopular and divisive, it almost (almost) looks like sabotage at this point.
I’m just trying to explain definitions to you lol. Liberals do not want what leftists want.
Leftists also don’t want what other leftists want, that’s not the definition.
Liberals are not leftist
QED
you seriously think liberals are part of left? lol.
QED
It’s their go to.
Like yeah, milquetoast policies ultimately lead us here but they have more fury for the people doing moderately OK but ultimately unsatisfactory things than the people actually going hog wild, robbing everyone blind, instituting fascism, etc.
The person breaking the lock and leaving deserves about as much blame as the burglar.