East Germany is a complex subject. A lot of money has gone into projects to help it catch up after the reunification since Russia completely gutted it, but not much of that money made it anywhere. The population feels left behind and unheard. They’re being treated as lesser through little fault of their own. Pretty easy breeding ground for scape goating.
Plus it’s the exact same playbook as the US when it comes to “iMmIgRaNtS!!!”. Logic and reason has long left and there’s really no way to reel in conspiracy nuts once they’ve gone off the rails. Germany is only a few years behind the US.
How would you even prevent this? The ideas spread by messenger and social media and infect people without critical thinking skills - which is most. Chat control is obviously the wrong approach, but what is the right one? How do you convince clanma who doesn’t trust anything anymore that the WhatsApp stats are made up and government statistics are actually trustworthy and backed by data?
You have state media which is mostly balanced, possibly a little left, and then private conglomerates that love discord, so mostly right leaning and inflammatory. Anything Springer Verlag is garbage, for example. Not as bad as the US with Fox.
People want to have a good life, no matter their critical thinking levels. If your government tries to fuck you and practically only works for lobbyists they will happily jump on any bandwagon praising to be the holy god.
Please, stop protecting them and repeating this nonsense. The West German mark and the East German mark were converted at a 1:1 rate right after the Wende. People in the GDR were not all living in Plattenbauten. Many had their own houses, and many others left for southern Germany and Switzerland instead of staying and helping to rebuild the country.
Since then, billions of euros have been transferred from West Germany to East Germany. I remember very well people in the East having two cars and renovating their houses. I had far relatives there, so I saw it myself. Meanwhile, parts of the West, especially the Ruhr area, were struggling heavily, with municipalities accumulating huge debts that they are still dealing with today.
And now they want to tell the West, which has spent decades financing and rebuilding this part of the country, what it should do?
You know what? It might have been better for West Germany if reunification had never happened and East Germany had simply been sold to Russia - at least it seems that’s also their wish.
That’s the exact mindset that got us here. Dismissing and invalidating their feelings. The West struggling doesn’t invalidate their struggle. Russia completely gutted anything industrial, literally taking apart all machinery and moving it to Russia. There was nothing to build on and companies didn’t move there, either. So despite the common struggle, the East wasn’t really able to build any lasting base industry-wise.
disagree with you. I’ve seen and met enough East Germans to have a very different perspective. From my experience, there is often very little empathy - especially towards people of different skin colours or sexual orientations. There is a reason why parts of eastern Germany are sometimes referred to as Dunkeldeutschland.
Did they ever thank West Germans for the help? NEVER. If anything, it’s been the opposite: demanding more and more. And again, telling West Germans what they have to do. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you, something many East Germans seem not to understand.
If you feel so strongly about it, I suggest you pay back the Solidaritätsbeitrag, which has amounted to billions over the years.
Ah yes the helping hand from the west. Buying company inventories and closing them afterwards. Mass unemployment. Integration without the ability to influence the legal foundations of their new state. Those ungrateful east germans who could not build their own industry! And all that comes from the ones that build generational wealth from billions of nazi money. Adidas, VW, Bayer, Allianz, Krupp.
I believe the money is part of the issue, and you expecting thanks is telling. Also, “the hand that feeds you” is the exact “lesser human” rhetoric I meant.
If the populace never felt the effect of the money, it might as well never have existed. The West is angry for sending it and the East is angry for not receiving it. Whoever pockets it gladly stands by and watches the East and West fight each other.
I don’t think the Soli is the right tool for the job. The money is just part of the regular budget and not bound to East Germany. Build universities or invest in faculties, infrastructure, etc. and make the region worth investing in from an economic standpoint and the rest will follow, none of which we’re doing.
But it is much harder. You have to go out and socialize, in person.
Plus most people don’t want to talk politics.
At least in the U.S, it is considered a somewhat rude or inappropriate conversation topic in casual conversations.
Like religion.
Some people still do it and sometimes it just comes up. But generally it’s seen as pushy. Or trying to start an argument.
But talking politics to friends and family is usually considered fine. Depends on the family members. So I do keep up these conversations with friends and some family members, when I can. Remind them that you can only trust what you hear from real people.
The internet would have you believe the majority of Americans are maga. When it’s actually only 30%.
Plus most people don’t want to talk politics. At least in the U.S, it is considered a somewhat rude or inappropriate conversation topic in casual conversations.
Germans are thankfully more open about discussing politics in my experience. But it’s difficult because people get tiktok brain worms and their logical side goes out the window. Back in the US, we still haven’t figured out the solution to this.
The internet would have you believe the majority of Americans are maga. When it’s actually only 30%.
East Germany is a complex subject. A lot of money has gone into projects to help it catch up after the reunification since Russia completely gutted it, but not much of that money made it anywhere. The population feels left behind and unheard. They’re being treated as lesser through little fault of their own. Pretty easy breeding ground for scape goating.
Plus it’s the exact same playbook as the US when it comes to “iMmIgRaNtS!!!”. Logic and reason has long left and there’s really no way to reel in conspiracy nuts once they’ve gone off the rails. Germany is only a few years behind the US.
How would you even prevent this? The ideas spread by messenger and social media and infect people without critical thinking skills - which is most. Chat control is obviously the wrong approach, but what is the right one? How do you convince clanma who doesn’t trust anything anymore that the WhatsApp stats are made up and government statistics are actually trustworthy and backed by data?
What’s the media landscape like in Germany?
You have state media which is mostly balanced, possibly a little left, and then private conglomerates that love discord, so mostly right leaning and inflammatory. Anything Springer Verlag is garbage, for example. Not as bad as the US with Fox.
People want to have a good life, no matter their critical thinking levels. If your government tries to fuck you and practically only works for lobbyists they will happily jump on any bandwagon praising to be the holy god.
Please, stop protecting them and repeating this nonsense. The West German mark and the East German mark were converted at a 1:1 rate right after the Wende. People in the GDR were not all living in Plattenbauten. Many had their own houses, and many others left for southern Germany and Switzerland instead of staying and helping to rebuild the country.
Since then, billions of euros have been transferred from West Germany to East Germany. I remember very well people in the East having two cars and renovating their houses. I had far relatives there, so I saw it myself. Meanwhile, parts of the West, especially the Ruhr area, were struggling heavily, with municipalities accumulating huge debts that they are still dealing with today.
And now they want to tell the West, which has spent decades financing and rebuilding this part of the country, what it should do?
You know what? It might have been better for West Germany if reunification had never happened and East Germany had simply been sold to Russia - at least it seems that’s also their wish.
That’s the exact mindset that got us here. Dismissing and invalidating their feelings. The West struggling doesn’t invalidate their struggle. Russia completely gutted anything industrial, literally taking apart all machinery and moving it to Russia. There was nothing to build on and companies didn’t move there, either. So despite the common struggle, the East wasn’t really able to build any lasting base industry-wise.
disagree with you. I’ve seen and met enough East Germans to have a very different perspective. From my experience, there is often very little empathy - especially towards people of different skin colours or sexual orientations. There is a reason why parts of eastern Germany are sometimes referred to as Dunkeldeutschland.
Did they ever thank West Germans for the help? NEVER. If anything, it’s been the opposite: demanding more and more. And again, telling West Germans what they have to do. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you, something many East Germans seem not to understand.
If you feel so strongly about it, I suggest you pay back the Solidaritätsbeitrag, which has amounted to billions over the years.
Ah yes the helping hand from the west. Buying company inventories and closing them afterwards. Mass unemployment. Integration without the ability to influence the legal foundations of their new state. Those ungrateful east germans who could not build their own industry! And all that comes from the ones that build generational wealth from billions of nazi money. Adidas, VW, Bayer, Allianz, Krupp.
Me, too, most recently a coworker from Gera.
I believe the money is part of the issue, and you expecting thanks is telling. Also, “the hand that feeds you” is the exact “lesser human” rhetoric I meant.
If the populace never felt the effect of the money, it might as well never have existed. The West is angry for sending it and the East is angry for not receiving it. Whoever pockets it gladly stands by and watches the East and West fight each other.
I don’t think the Soli is the right tool for the job. The money is just part of the regular budget and not bound to East Germany. Build universities or invest in faculties, infrastructure, etc. and make the region worth investing in from an economic standpoint and the rest will follow, none of which we’re doing.
The only place to fight it is off the internet.
But it is much harder. You have to go out and socialize, in person.
Plus most people don’t want to talk politics. At least in the U.S, it is considered a somewhat rude or inappropriate conversation topic in casual conversations.
Like religion.
Some people still do it and sometimes it just comes up. But generally it’s seen as pushy. Or trying to start an argument.
But talking politics to friends and family is usually considered fine. Depends on the family members. So I do keep up these conversations with friends and some family members, when I can. Remind them that you can only trust what you hear from real people.
The internet would have you believe the majority of Americans are maga. When it’s actually only 30%.
Germans are thankfully more open about discussing politics in my experience. But it’s difficult because people get tiktok brain worms and their logical side goes out the window. Back in the US, we still haven’t figured out the solution to this.
Depends where you live tbh.