Nah. Billionaires didn’t force Reagan and Clinton to deregulate the US and set the stage for what we have today. Capitalism existed while FDR implemented the new deal, etc.
There weren’t as many billionaires influencing politicians because there were vastly fewer billionaires, and the value of the dollar was way higher. A 100millionare in the 80’s would have, I imagine, had similar influence to today’s billionaires.
Hell, Reagan had the “Kitchen Cabinet” that was all wealthy business owners.
Billionaires are a symptom, not the sickness. Yes, we need to rid ourselves of billionaires the way we rid ourselves of the robber barons, but they are not the problem no matter how hard you wish them to be. The problem is the system that allowed them to exist. Rich fucks were always around to exhert influence, but not like this. We had guard rails in place to limit their political influence, to break up monopolies, to set limits on political donations, to set limits on campaign finance, to set limits on media influence, etc.
By all means, break out the guillotine, but you cannot stop there. Saying “billionaire bad” is not enough. You have to have wholesale reform or you are going to end up in the same place, or much worse.
The problem is unrestricted, unregulated capitalism. Get rid of the top 20 billionaires and others will take their place, just as bad or maybe worse. Regulation goes a long way to addressing many of the problems we are seeing in our world today. Is it the only solution? Definitely not, but having had most regulation gutted (started in the 80s and just getting more hamstrung from there) has escalated the problem immensely. Reintroducing strong business regulation is a good start because, contrary to what a lot of you all are hoping for, most folks aren’t ready to seize the means of production and make a wholesale change to a socialist utopia.
I genuinely do not understand why my point was so hard to grasp. Billionaires are bad, yes I agree, but billionaires are the end product of a system that allow billionaires to exist. Do not only focus on symptom, focus on the cause.
Right… The people at the top weren’t billionaires, but they were the wealthy elite, who had hundreds of millions of dollars, and before that, tens, and before that just millionaires.
The wealthy elite are always the ones that pull the strings in a capitalist organization of the economy…
I am not confused, and I don’t think we are necessarily disagreeing. My point isn’t that billionaires are faultless or good. My point is that they are not the root of the evil. We cannot just rid ourselves of the billionaires, pat ourselves on the back and call it a day. We have to do that, and then go further. We have to, at the very least, put the guardrails back in place to ensure a new crop doesn’t pop right back up.
The great crash and the following great depression took care of the robber barons. We regulated in order to avoid them again, but eventually forgot our lesson. I suspect that the AI crash will take care of this current batch of rich fucks, and we will once again regulate and focus on people like FDR did. I just wish we would stop forgetting the lessons of the not so distant past.
Ok, I think I see what you’re getting at. Billionaires constitute the capitalist class, but individual capitalists aren’t the problem; it’s the capitalist class that needs to be abolished
Exactly! We need to set checks in place to make sure the mega rich are not allowed to be a thing. I am sorry but nobody should be rich enough to set up space tourism as a side hobby while his employees piss in bottles at the warehouse. That’s fucking insane!
I think you are GREATLY, GREATLY misunderstanding the level of lobbying the rich do to keep and expand their power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Money_(book) gives you a peek behind the curtains of just a few billionaires. Its scary how deep their roots run through society. Now imagine that times 1000’s of billionaires. They litterally control how 95% of the population, eat, sleep, think, pray, and vote.
Nah. Billionaires didn’t force Reagan and Clinton to deregulate the US and set the stage for what we have today. Capitalism existed while FDR implemented the new deal, etc.
There weren’t as many billionaires influencing politicians because there were vastly fewer billionaires, and the value of the dollar was way higher. A 100millionare in the 80’s would have, I imagine, had similar influence to today’s billionaires.
Hell, Reagan had the “Kitchen Cabinet” that was all wealthy business owners.
Billionaires are a symptom, not the sickness. Yes, we need to rid ourselves of billionaires the way we rid ourselves of the robber barons, but they are not the problem no matter how hard you wish them to be. The problem is the system that allowed them to exist. Rich fucks were always around to exhert influence, but not like this. We had guard rails in place to limit their political influence, to break up monopolies, to set limits on political donations, to set limits on campaign finance, to set limits on media influence, etc.
By all means, break out the guillotine, but you cannot stop there. Saying “billionaire bad” is not enough. You have to have wholesale reform or you are going to end up in the same place, or much worse.
I can’t even tell what point you’re trying to make anymore…
The problem is unrestricted, unregulated capitalism. Get rid of the top 20 billionaires and others will take their place, just as bad or maybe worse. Regulation goes a long way to addressing many of the problems we are seeing in our world today. Is it the only solution? Definitely not, but having had most regulation gutted (started in the 80s and just getting more hamstrung from there) has escalated the problem immensely. Reintroducing strong business regulation is a good start because, contrary to what a lot of you all are hoping for, most folks aren’t ready to seize the means of production and make a wholesale change to a socialist utopia.
I genuinely do not understand why my point was so hard to grasp. Billionaires are bad, yes I agree, but billionaires are the end product of a system that allow billionaires to exist. Do not only focus on symptom, focus on the cause.
Yes but the point is that billionaires/the 1% has been pushing the system that way. It didn’t come out of thin air.
Right… The people at the top weren’t billionaires, but they were the wealthy elite, who had hundreds of millions of dollars, and before that, tens, and before that just millionaires.
The wealthy elite are always the ones that pull the strings in a capitalist organization of the economy…
I think you’re confused. Do billionaires own the means of production, or don’t they?
I am not confused, and I don’t think we are necessarily disagreeing. My point isn’t that billionaires are faultless or good. My point is that they are not the root of the evil. We cannot just rid ourselves of the billionaires, pat ourselves on the back and call it a day. We have to do that, and then go further. We have to, at the very least, put the guardrails back in place to ensure a new crop doesn’t pop right back up.
The great crash and the following great depression took care of the robber barons. We regulated in order to avoid them again, but eventually forgot our lesson. I suspect that the AI crash will take care of this current batch of rich fucks, and we will once again regulate and focus on people like FDR did. I just wish we would stop forgetting the lessons of the not so distant past.
Ok, I think I see what you’re getting at. Billionaires constitute the capitalist class, but individual capitalists aren’t the problem; it’s the capitalist class that needs to be abolished
Exactly! We need to set checks in place to make sure the mega rich are not allowed to be a thing. I am sorry but nobody should be rich enough to set up space tourism as a side hobby while his employees piss in bottles at the warehouse. That’s fucking insane!
Judging from your vote scores on this comment chain, its apparently very unpopular to think radically.
You know, what actually is the cause, how does cause lead to effect, we should address the cause, not the symptom, etc.
What seems to be easier is ‘billionaires bad’.
But not ‘how is there billionaires, why is there billionaires?’
I think you are GREATLY, GREATLY misunderstanding the level of lobbying the rich do to keep and expand their power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Money_(book) gives you a peek behind the curtains of just a few billionaires. Its scary how deep their roots run through society. Now imagine that times 1000’s of billionaires. They litterally control how 95% of the population, eat, sleep, think, pray, and vote.