I would remind you that this comment chain began with someone suggesting that we’d “only need to lose 50 maybe 100 people”. I’m under no illusions as to what was meant by that, and I’m saying that generally speaking, that sort of “solution” doesn’t improve things. “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”, etc.
Force is sometimes necessary, yes, but generally speaking, the people who suggest it as a first resort before ever having gotten personally involved in attempts at other solutions, are the people who should be kept very far away from the real decision making.
No one suggested it first. We’ve been working for decades through peaceful measures. Hell, we’re still doing it now and they are responding with marking our organizations as “domestic terrorist” with both parties spending every ounce of AIPAC funds to stop us.
Those that make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. We are right on that edge right now. We don’t make the choice to use violence. They do.
That’s a lot of “we” and “our”. Are you a member of a community organization that’s working to peacefully improve things? Have you or someone you personally know been prosecuted as a terrorist for peaceful activism?
Before trying Michael Collins IRA stuff, you should at least attempt CS ParnellLand League stuff. Especially since you need a large percentage of the community to have already gotten organized before either form of action can hope to succeed, and that organization is easier to accomplish when you’re not asking people to kill people. How many of your neighbors are you on a first name basis with? If you can’t organize a community boycott then you could never hope to organize a revolution.
Nothing you said here was in response to the point of my comment. You instead tried to change the conversation about my personal experiences. I guess I have to provide a a resume in order for you to address my direct criticism of your comment.
I’ll remind you what is was. I was criticizing the part where you ignored historical class struggle and instead suggested people were advocating for violence as a first step.
Also, the “we” I was using was referring to the working class and specifically those with class consciousness. It’s pretty obvious in the context of the conversation.
Do you want respond to my criticism or do I have to provide a resume first?
They were rhetorical questions meant to make you think about alternatives, and the historical examples that have worked.
You talk about historical class struggle as if nothing short of violence has ever worked, when this is demonstrably untrue and is generally only an argument used by those who haven’t the patience nor discipline to try anything else. I will reiterate: community organization is the only way forward, not vague suggestions of murder on anonymous forums to strangers. Even if violence were the answer, I wouldn’t follow any movement so undisciplined as to suggest it to strangers on an anonymous public forum and think that this made it somehow safe. The world needs more than Che Guevara t-shirts.
I wish to point out to you a very much better way – a more Christian and charitable way, which will give the lost man an opportunity of repenting. When a man takes a farm from which another has been evicted, you must shun him on the roadside when you meet him – you must shun him in the streets of the town – you must shun him in the shop – you must shun him on the fair green and in the market place, and even in the place of worship, by leaving him alone, by putting him in moral Coventry, by isolating him from the rest of the country, as if he were the leper of old – you must show him your detestation of the crime he committed.
Yeah I’m all for them to peacefully choose exile. But by the looks of it they’re rushing towards the force scenario. Which is then technically a self defense situation.
And yeah, it’s the hydras head unless there’s bigger changes as well. It’s a small chance either part would work on its own
It’s theseus’ ship. is it destruction is kind of a dilemma
I would remind you that this comment chain began with someone suggesting that we’d “only need to lose 50 maybe 100 people”. I’m under no illusions as to what was meant by that, and I’m saying that generally speaking, that sort of “solution” doesn’t improve things. “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”, etc.
Force is sometimes necessary, yes, but generally speaking, the people who suggest it as a first resort before ever having gotten personally involved in attempts at other solutions, are the people who should be kept very far away from the real decision making.
No one suggested it first. We’ve been working for decades through peaceful measures. Hell, we’re still doing it now and they are responding with marking our organizations as “domestic terrorist” with both parties spending every ounce of AIPAC funds to stop us.
Those that make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. We are right on that edge right now. We don’t make the choice to use violence. They do.
That’s a lot of “we” and “our”. Are you a member of a community organization that’s working to peacefully improve things? Have you or someone you personally know been prosecuted as a terrorist for peaceful activism?
Before trying Michael Collins IRA stuff, you should at least attempt CS Parnell Land League stuff. Especially since you need a large percentage of the community to have already gotten organized before either form of action can hope to succeed, and that organization is easier to accomplish when you’re not asking people to kill people. How many of your neighbors are you on a first name basis with? If you can’t organize a community boycott then you could never hope to organize a revolution.
Nothing you said here was in response to the point of my comment. You instead tried to change the conversation about my personal experiences. I guess I have to provide a a resume in order for you to address my direct criticism of your comment.
I’ll remind you what is was. I was criticizing the part where you ignored historical class struggle and instead suggested people were advocating for violence as a first step.
Also, the “we” I was using was referring to the working class and specifically those with class consciousness. It’s pretty obvious in the context of the conversation.
Do you want respond to my criticism or do I have to provide a resume first?
They were rhetorical questions meant to make you think about alternatives, and the historical examples that have worked.
You talk about historical class struggle as if nothing short of violence has ever worked, when this is demonstrably untrue and is generally only an argument used by those who haven’t the patience nor discipline to try anything else. I will reiterate: community organization is the only way forward, not vague suggestions of murder on anonymous forums to strangers. Even if violence were the answer, I wouldn’t follow any movement so undisciplined as to suggest it to strangers on an anonymous public forum and think that this made it somehow safe. The world needs more than Che Guevara t-shirts.
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Yeah I’m all for them to peacefully choose exile. But by the looks of it they’re rushing towards the force scenario. Which is then technically a self defense situation.
And yeah, it’s the hydras head unless there’s bigger changes as well. It’s a small chance either part would work on its own