This type of response is the exact type of thing that makes me worry about Europe.
Like, you’re talking to someone who is very much involved in working to “sort shit out” over here. My comment was asking Europeans how they feel. How anti fascist see their own social democracys or liberal democracys are responding to America lashing out and whether they expect actual resistance.
It’s not something you should feel attacked by at all. And, like it or not, you’re in the same global “house” mate.
Look, what the guy said might have been crude, but he’s not wrong. It doesn’t matter to the rest of the world whether one American, or another, is resisting US fascism. It makes no fundamental difference to the globe.
You really need to step outside of your perspective.
The ICC was set up to hold war criminals accountable. The US fought against it since the beginning and is still fighting against it now. Trump wasn’t president when it was set up. The US just wants to go rogue in international affairs. That’s where we come in. The international bit.
To the rest of the world, we just want the US to just shut the fudge up and leave us alone. We don’t need American advice, and don’t want it. It’s like a neighbour offering advice about our fire regulations when their own house is burning to the actual ground. Pull out of NATO, hit us with tariffs, start stupid and unnecessary wars and all the other dangerous crap. Just leave us out of it. Like the guy said, your country took yourselves out of the global community. Fine. Keep your advice about how to fix Europe to yourself until you learn how to provide healthcare and basic services to your own citizens. It wasn’t for nothing that your ridiculous tipping culture was a shock to Europeans during the world cup. In Europe service staff are paid a living wage. To them, tipping is the cream, not the cake.
I apologise for the slightly hostile tone, and don’t mean it towards you personally. I also know that 50% of Americans don’t want this, but the other 50% come across as pretty toxic.
The minute you declare that you are only interested in American values and that you are not accountable to the world then you lose the right for the rest of us to pay you any regard. Your system produced Trump twice. Twice! We know that you can pull that trick at any election, and the chaos returns. Europe and other countries are now building guardrails. We have to, but it’s not what we want. It’s too exhausting.
The minute you declare that you are only interested in American values and that you are not accountable to the world then you lose the right for the rest of us to pay you any regard.
Ok, but by your own admission I didn’t do this. Did I do this? I literally showed interest in Europe and how Europeans are dealing with the consequences of American Fascism.
To the rest of the world, we just want the US to just shut the fudge up and leave us alone.
Sure. That would be great. But that’s not happening anytime soon. I get this type of response from Europeans here often. Like the answer is obviously not to plug your ears and close your eyes.
I feel like anytime I point to issues in Europe and say “hey, that’s a lot like the shit that happened here that lead to Fascism. You guys should be concerned” the response by Europeans is to ignore it because “America is so bad by comparison”.
Like, I don’t even get responses like, “nah, that’s different because xy and z”. I just get garbage “shut up” responses. Which only makes me assume that those problems are being ignored.
Having shit governments are not a competition. And America being shit doesn’t make other shit not shit.
It feels often like Europeans are even LESS class conscious than a lot of Americans now. Which is why I get all of this “this country, your country, my country” talk. With zero discussion of class and how American capitalist are influencing the leadership and elections of all of Europe. It’s this false belief in national identity over class identity.
You and I have significantly more in common as members of the working class then you or I have with the leaders of our countries. But I often can’t get a European to admit that.
When Europeans hate America. I often feel like “dude, you don’t hate America enough”. It seems to be a redirection of hatred onto individual Americans while ignoring the American capitalist direct influence in their own government. If I point that out it’s not me flexing American influence. It’s me saying it’s fucking bad. My hate is pure.
First of all, I am not referring to you personally. Nor Americans like you. Unfortunately, by having the system you guys have, it makes no fundamental difference. The States are doing untold damage, and if you get lumped into the mix against your will, it is still being done in your name regardless.
The rest of the world are not plugging our ears - we are being held hostage. I just filled up my car today and paid an eye-watering amount. I didn’t vote for that, neither did several hundred million of us.
I’m sorry, but while I am intensely interested in how you guys are going to put this right, I’m less interested in American views on international issues.
By the way, not saying that we don’t have our own problems, we certainly do, but we are dealing with them behind the scenes quietly, such as dropping as much US software and hardware as possible. Trump has been a boon for national infrastructure development.
Oh, take Australia, for example. They have supported US foreign policy for over 80 years. They have supported every US war since WW2. That stopped dead this year. The public announcements from the government have been neutral, but the actions speak for themselves.
Anyway, I’m at pains for wishing you guys the best, especially the good people such as yourself. I hope that you can figure it out somehow.
This type of response is the exact type of thing that makes me worry about Europe.
Like, you’re talking to someone who is very much involved in working to “sort shit out” over here. My comment was asking Europeans how they feel. How anti fascist see their own social democracys or liberal democracys are responding to America lashing out and whether they expect actual resistance.
It’s not something you should feel attacked by at all. And, like it or not, you’re in the same global “house” mate.
Look, what the guy said might have been crude, but he’s not wrong. It doesn’t matter to the rest of the world whether one American, or another, is resisting US fascism. It makes no fundamental difference to the globe.
You really need to step outside of your perspective.
The ICC was set up to hold war criminals accountable. The US fought against it since the beginning and is still fighting against it now. Trump wasn’t president when it was set up. The US just wants to go rogue in international affairs. That’s where we come in. The international bit.
To the rest of the world, we just want the US to just shut the fudge up and leave us alone. We don’t need American advice, and don’t want it. It’s like a neighbour offering advice about our fire regulations when their own house is burning to the actual ground. Pull out of NATO, hit us with tariffs, start stupid and unnecessary wars and all the other dangerous crap. Just leave us out of it. Like the guy said, your country took yourselves out of the global community. Fine. Keep your advice about how to fix Europe to yourself until you learn how to provide healthcare and basic services to your own citizens. It wasn’t for nothing that your ridiculous tipping culture was a shock to Europeans during the world cup. In Europe service staff are paid a living wage. To them, tipping is the cream, not the cake.
I apologise for the slightly hostile tone, and don’t mean it towards you personally. I also know that 50% of Americans don’t want this, but the other 50% come across as pretty toxic.
The minute you declare that you are only interested in American values and that you are not accountable to the world then you lose the right for the rest of us to pay you any regard. Your system produced Trump twice. Twice! We know that you can pull that trick at any election, and the chaos returns. Europe and other countries are now building guardrails. We have to, but it’s not what we want. It’s too exhausting.
Ok, but by your own admission I didn’t do this. Did I do this? I literally showed interest in Europe and how Europeans are dealing with the consequences of American Fascism.
Sure. That would be great. But that’s not happening anytime soon. I get this type of response from Europeans here often. Like the answer is obviously not to plug your ears and close your eyes.
I feel like anytime I point to issues in Europe and say “hey, that’s a lot like the shit that happened here that lead to Fascism. You guys should be concerned” the response by Europeans is to ignore it because “America is so bad by comparison”.
Like, I don’t even get responses like, “nah, that’s different because xy and z”. I just get garbage “shut up” responses. Which only makes me assume that those problems are being ignored.
Having shit governments are not a competition. And America being shit doesn’t make other shit not shit.
It feels often like Europeans are even LESS class conscious than a lot of Americans now. Which is why I get all of this “this country, your country, my country” talk. With zero discussion of class and how American capitalist are influencing the leadership and elections of all of Europe. It’s this false belief in national identity over class identity.
You and I have significantly more in common as members of the working class then you or I have with the leaders of our countries. But I often can’t get a European to admit that.
When Europeans hate America. I often feel like “dude, you don’t hate America enough”. It seems to be a redirection of hatred onto individual Americans while ignoring the American capitalist direct influence in their own government. If I point that out it’s not me flexing American influence. It’s me saying it’s fucking bad. My hate is pure.
First of all, I am not referring to you personally. Nor Americans like you. Unfortunately, by having the system you guys have, it makes no fundamental difference. The States are doing untold damage, and if you get lumped into the mix against your will, it is still being done in your name regardless.
The rest of the world are not plugging our ears - we are being held hostage. I just filled up my car today and paid an eye-watering amount. I didn’t vote for that, neither did several hundred million of us.
I’m sorry, but while I am intensely interested in how you guys are going to put this right, I’m less interested in American views on international issues.
By the way, not saying that we don’t have our own problems, we certainly do, but we are dealing with them behind the scenes quietly, such as dropping as much US software and hardware as possible. Trump has been a boon for national infrastructure development.
Oh, take Australia, for example. They have supported US foreign policy for over 80 years. They have supported every US war since WW2. That stopped dead this year. The public announcements from the government have been neutral, but the actions speak for themselves.
Anyway, I’m at pains for wishing you guys the best, especially the good people such as yourself. I hope that you can figure it out somehow.