so i just had this discussion with a friend whether smartphones should be required to be repairable by law.

my answer is: probably not a good regulation. because: smartphones basically don’t produce toxins during production or when disposed, so there’s no environmental harm. smartphones cost like $200 these days (at least the new ones i buy) and these work well despite the low cost, so it’s not like you’re bleeding out financially because of smartphones. assuming a cost of living around $2000/month which is i think average for the US (?), and assuming that a smartphone lasts 5 years without repair, that means that smartphones cost about 0.2% of your expenses. Not even 1 percent.

Also making stuff repairable means adding additional screws which add weight and more importantly complexity that increase production cost.

feel free to shit on my take with “muh duh capitalism bad we need to regulate things” and i get your point with basically a lot of things like healthcare (which is really too expensive) but smartphones are a bad example for this. it’s like complaining about the weight of paper, saying that we need to cut greenhouse gas emissions by reducing the freight weight of trucks by making paper used in books thinner, so that it’s more lightweight. you save like 0.000001% of the total weight of what’s carried around while also making books more fragile because thinner paper tears more easily. it’s a distraction from the important issues. it causes the illusion that regulation is bad because one regulation after another is a bad example that shouldn’t have been regulated in the first place. it’s like when the capitalists come together to think about “how do we pitch the society against state oversight?” and then they come up with 10 different weak/controversial/meaningless proposals just to give examples to the population that regulating things doesn’t pay off.


edit:

damn i have hardly ever seen a post with 76 downvotes to 4 upvotes. i thought lemmy removes a post from the feed after 20 downvotes. well, maybe they changed it.


Anyways, a few hours later, after thinking about it again, i think what i wanted to say is that the toxicity of smartphones is the problem, but repairing smartphones might not be the solution.

Consider the following: even if you only buy half as many smartphones because they last twice as long, you would still pollute the environment through your actions, because there’s still toxins released into the environment. so reducing the problem does not solve it. i think to make a meaningful approach, one should define criteria or thresholds about how many toxins can be released into the environment. My personal approach to this is that all toxins are harmful and should be avoided, but i think that can only be done by requiring smartphone manufacturers to produce phones in non-toxic ways, without heavy metals and such. This is the actual solution because it doesn’t release toxins into the environment. Meanwhile, repairability is the illusion of a meaningful proposal because it doesn’t actually solve the problem. Meanwhile, it shifts blame on the consumer because now you’re required to feel like it is your responsibility that the environment doesn’t get polluted, meanwhile your MAGA neighbor will not care about this and happily buy a new iPhone every 1.5 years.

So what i propose is:

  • Require smartphone manufacturers to not use harmful chemicals during smartphone production; such that smartphones are effectively non-toxic and can be disposed of safely through the bin, without environmental hazard.
  • instead of: accepting that smartphones are toxic and will forever stay toxic (this feels like there should be a close analogy to the internet ;-) ), while also demanding that end users take care of the environment by buying less but also demanding that end users help stimulate the economy by buying more, at the same time.

More smartphones can be produced if they’re non-toxic because there would be less environmental hazard from it, so it would actually help the economy. Please consider demanding that smartphones be non-toxic as a policy proposal.

To sum it up: Non-Toxic Computing. That does not only include social media being non-toxic but also the computing hardware being non-toxic.

Thank you for the attention and sorry for the confusion at first!

  • whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works
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    2 days ago

    because: smartphones basically don’t produce toxins during production or when disposed, so there’s no environmental harm.

    Yeah you’re right, I’m even using electronic waste as a soil for my tomatoes, the lithium and plastic give it a nice taste

  • ater@piefed.world
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    2 days ago

    smartphones basically don’t produce toxins during production or when disposed

    Er, citation needed? Because pretty much every piece of a cell phone is toxic when recycled (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11270-023-06328-2), even just the plastics used in the casing (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412019332556). There are not nearly enough recycling facilities to handle all the e-waste (https://microjournal.researchfloor.org/impact-of-e-waste-on-human-health-and-environment/) and most of it is shipped to developing worlds to be burned in open air pits.

    • Aniki@feddit.orgOP
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      2 days ago

      thank you for the links, i’ll study them in detail.

      ok then i have a follow-up question: which of these toxic compounds are actually necessary? like could you produce a smartphone that works just as well without them?

      my take that they don’t produce toxic waste was based on their low mass and on a discussion that i had with a friend years ago where we looked at the chemistry of smartphones and concluded that essentially, there’s no requirement to use toxic chemicals during their production process. i think my mind went on to assume “since it’s not necessary, it’s not happening”. which i see now was a wrong assumption.

      • CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 days ago

        Start with batteries which are the biggest component of a phone these days - no, you can’t make a phone battery that does what a lithium ion battery does, without lithium.

        • Aniki@feddit.orgOP
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          well, it’s gotta be possible in concept. nature does it; the brain is compostible, or when incinerated, burns without a trace. Maybe we’re just not there yet technology-wise.

      • boredsquirrel (he)@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        Bro please, research this more. Extraction, refining, processing, is always at least energy intensive, even with closed loop recycling.

        But the processes are so complex, and producing complex combounds, alloys etc requires a lot of byproducts, reagents, solvents and causes waste, this is not the case.

        It is basic knowledge that you should always avoid to discard any product. Use it as long as possible, as that doesnt cause any more harm.

  • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    All electronics have a negative environmental impact. I don’t know where you’re reading that they don’t, but find more sources.

  • TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website
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    I feel like your take comes from a lack of information in the subject

    Also right to repair come from software interoperability and that’s always a win

      • plc@feddit.dk
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        Right to repair often comes up as a remedy against software monopoly (think appstore/play/android/ios) because it implies being able to override the bootloader and OS.

        The one major obstacle to a thriving OSS mobile market is a lack of compatible devices, because iphones and androids are locked down.

        If you were actually free to do it you could easily (in a world where this market was allowed to develop) extend the life of an iphone 7 by 5-10 more years, even though apple has decided no longer to support it with software updates.

  • CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de
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    2 days ago

    smartphones basically don’t produce toxins during production or when disposed

    Positively incorrect

    smartphones cost like $200 these days (at least the new ones i buy) and these work well despite the low cost, so it’s not like you’re bleeding out financially because of smartphones

    Flagships are solidly 7-8 times that cost. Sorry you’re using a “cheap” $200 phone from 2020.

    • queueBenSis@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      that second statement is also a very privileged statement. there’s countless people in the world that make less than $200 in a month. if you live in a country that’s exploited for its cheap labor (by these very phone companies), it’s unlikely you can afford one of these “affordable” phones easily

  • ShellMonkey@piefed.socdojo.com
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    2 days ago

    You used to be able to replace a battery just b taking a cover off, or use a physical, non-drm capable audio out from a phone. Then the companies decided that to shave a few pennies off the costs and at the same time make more people rely on buying a new phone or paying for repairs by taking those things away.

    I’m pretty sure they can survive taking a fraction of a percent less profit to build things in a way where you can replace a battery or screen without excessive work. Free market maximalism just leads to letting companies squeeze you for every penny they can, and on a longer scale continue to drive the disposable ‘buy don’t repair’ mentality so prevalent today in not just phones but virtually all common goods.

    • Aniki@feddit.orgOP
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      2 days ago

      You used to be able to replace a battery just b taking a cover off,

      yeah, i do wonder, did these phones use to be water-proof? I don’t remember. In the rain i mean, environmental moisture.

      • ShellMonkey@piefed.socdojo.com
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        2 days ago

        Well enough at least. Last I had was back in maybe the android 2 era, but the design basically was snapped shut, a rubber gasket around the lip, and a couple screws with some thread lock. Battery compartment’s only exposed contacts where a couple flat tabs molded into the case, so the battery itself might be vulnerable, but the phone was really no worse than anything with a USB port today.

  • TheDarkQuark@lemmy.world
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    Say you buy a $1000 phone, and the screen cracks in like 2 months. What do you do? Will you happily pay around a third of the phone price just to get the screen repaired from their official service center? A part of the reason the repair price is so extremely high is because the repair is not easy (even if the display does not cost as much). The disassembly of the phone requires specialized tools (and knowledge) which are not as easily accessible to the average person.

    Replacing the battery is even harder. Phones these days have software support for up to 7 years, but the battery degrades a lot in 3. So, you are now left with a capable device that drains extremely fast.

    Also, a lot of us want phones with long (preferably upstream) software support and are privacy enthusiasts. And I have seen no phone which matches the desired criteria for under $200. You need to dish out around $500 (e.g. Pixel 10a) to get such a device new (obviously cheaper if you buy it second hand).

    • Aniki@feddit.orgOP
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      2 days ago

      You need to dish out around $500 (e.g. Pixel 10a) to get such a device new

      i hope motorola pulls through with their new line of phones with unlockable bootloaders.

  • BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    In short, by default I don’t like if my device breaks after few years and I have to buy new one with all the added costs. Repairing is much cheaper especially if it’s $500+ device.

  • Aniki@feddit.orgOP
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    2 days ago

    after thinking about it a bit more, i recognize that the push to regulate smartphones is mostly about the psychological effect that people want to feel in control. it has nothing to do with the technology, it’s just a way of saying “yes i agree to regulating capitalism”.

    in a certain sense, i can understand it. you gotta start somewhere.

    • tmyakal@infosec.pub
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      Or the push is to be able to repair and continue using my shit?

      People regularly reaffix buttons or patch holes in clothing. Should they not be allowed to? I mean, it’s not that expensive to just buy new clothing, right? And the new styles are just better than what you’re used to, that’s objective fact even if it’s not to your taste.

      Only a buffoon would want to spend a little less and keep using a thing they like when they could spend a lot more and get a thing they might not like!

  • iceberg314@slrpnk.net
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    2 days ago

    Maybe it doesn’t need to be a law. But think it would be cooler if phones were more repairable or modular like desktop computers