You’re arguing as if you’ve uncovered some moral truth, but your entire position collapses under its own inconsistency.
You claim people in countries like Russia or North Korea aren’t responsible because they’re controlled by systems and leadership. Fine. That’s a defensible position.
But then you turn around and apply the exact opposite standard to the United States.
So which is it?
Are people shaped by systems they don’t fully control, or are they fully morally responsible for everything their government does?
You don’t get to switch between those depending on which country you’re criticizing. That’s not moral clarity. That’s selective reasoning.
You’re giving populations you sympathize with the benefit of context, while denying that same context to Americans. That is a textbook double standard.
And then you take it one step further. You generalize that entire population and justify your hostility toward them. That’s not some enlightened stance. It is the same kind of broad brush thinking you claim to oppose, just pointed in a different direction.
Your moral high ground depends entirely on ignoring nuance when it is inconvenient.
You also keep insisting your hatred is justified because it is aimed at injustice. No. That is not how that works. Hatred does not become virtuous because you feel strongly about your target. All it is doing here is pushing you into lazy conclusions, like blaming millions of people as if they are a single actor.
If people are influenced by propaganda, limited political choices, and systemic pressure, as you yourself admit in other contexts, then collective guilt falls apart. And if collective guilt falls apart, your justification for hating entire populations falls apart with it.
You cannot have it both ways.
Either people are products of their systems, in which case your anger should be directed with precision, or they are fully responsible individuals, in which case you need to apply that standard universally, including to places you are currently excusing.
Right now, you are not being principled. You are being inconsistent and then dressing it up as morality.
You change my words. I never said I hated an entire population. I told you what I’m against: injustice and the states the USA and Israel (there are more, but we’re talking about these now).
Next to that I said I dislike how self centered most Americans are, and I explained this comes because of education, culture, religion, etc.
You can’t change what I said and attack me for being inconsistent in what I said.
But then you turn around and apply the exact opposite standard to the United States.
Ok, let’s see. Elections in North Korea, 98% of the country voted for the leader of the only party: Mr. Kim. How did the elections go in the US? The same? Are people forced to vote for one person, or else face procecution for their entire family and forced labor for 5 generations in concentration camps? Or is it like the referendum held by Russia in the stolen provinces of Ukraine, where people voted to be a part of Russia, when the Russian military dragged people from their house and made them vote at gunpoint.
So you really want to say that your country is in the same situation, and the leadership in your country is doing the same and did the same to come to power?
Again, you avoid my questions. You attack me with points that are based on your wrong assumptions, wrong conclusions and bad reading.
All I said was that I’m against injustice and the people responsible for it. You changed that into hate. That’s debatable, but sure. I went with it. I said many Americans are partly responsible, either for doing it or for not doing anything against it. I never said all Americans are responsible. I just explained that the USA is not the same as Russia or North Korea as people are free to vote and join politics, to defend their political view without prosecution (until now at least). But the point I’m making is that the few that rose up against right wing, like Bernie Sanders (even though he’s only slightly left of the centre), their support is mediocre, nation wide, compared to the right wing politicians. Even a centre politician who became mayor of New York, Mamdani, is seen as far left by most Americans. That implicaties that those “most Americans” are right wing oriented. Which makes sense when you see the general political representation in your country, which is right or extreme right, while people are free to create a left political party or steer the democrats more to the left. But instead the left is dying out there. In a free, democratic country, where you are free to tell anyone to go fuck themselves, right? Well, not for long I recon.
All it is doing here is pushing you into lazy conclusions, like blaming millions of people as if they are a single actor.
I worked in Intel for 15 years. I don’t make lazy conclusions. Like I said before, I’ve seen a lot of places on this planet, seen many different perspectives. I don’t jump to conclusions because I read something on Facebook. Again, the question, how wide is your perspective, how much have you traveled, how much have you seen of the world?
If people are influenced by propaganda, limited political choices, and systemic pressure, as you yourself admit in other contexts, then collective guilt falls apart.
Yeah, if people do not live in a free democratic country, that applies indeed.
your justification for hating entire populations
Again, something you made up.
Hey buddy, was nice talking to ya mate, let me go fuck myself with my moral compass, let you go fuck yourself loving your amazing country, and leave it there. I don’t want to have an argument with someone who argues against words put into my mouth, who keeps avoiding my questions and who defends loving a state which is responsible for horrific acts happening right now, while also claiming not being responsible at all.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
You’re arguing as if you’ve uncovered some moral truth, but your entire position collapses under its own inconsistency.
You claim people in countries like Russia or North Korea aren’t responsible because they’re controlled by systems and leadership. Fine. That’s a defensible position.
But then you turn around and apply the exact opposite standard to the United States.
So which is it?
Are people shaped by systems they don’t fully control, or are they fully morally responsible for everything their government does?
You don’t get to switch between those depending on which country you’re criticizing. That’s not moral clarity. That’s selective reasoning. You’re giving populations you sympathize with the benefit of context, while denying that same context to Americans. That is a textbook double standard.
And then you take it one step further. You generalize that entire population and justify your hostility toward them. That’s not some enlightened stance. It is the same kind of broad brush thinking you claim to oppose, just pointed in a different direction. Your moral high ground depends entirely on ignoring nuance when it is inconvenient.
You also keep insisting your hatred is justified because it is aimed at injustice. No. That is not how that works. Hatred does not become virtuous because you feel strongly about your target. All it is doing here is pushing you into lazy conclusions, like blaming millions of people as if they are a single actor.
If people are influenced by propaganda, limited political choices, and systemic pressure, as you yourself admit in other contexts, then collective guilt falls apart. And if collective guilt falls apart, your justification for hating entire populations falls apart with it. You cannot have it both ways. Either people are products of their systems, in which case your anger should be directed with precision, or they are fully responsible individuals, in which case you need to apply that standard universally, including to places you are currently excusing.
Right now, you are not being principled. You are being inconsistent and then dressing it up as morality.
You change my words. I never said I hated an entire population. I told you what I’m against: injustice and the states the USA and Israel (there are more, but we’re talking about these now).
Next to that I said I dislike how self centered most Americans are, and I explained this comes because of education, culture, religion, etc.
You can’t change what I said and attack me for being inconsistent in what I said.
Ok, let’s see. Elections in North Korea, 98% of the country voted for the leader of the only party: Mr. Kim. How did the elections go in the US? The same? Are people forced to vote for one person, or else face procecution for their entire family and forced labor for 5 generations in concentration camps? Or is it like the referendum held by Russia in the stolen provinces of Ukraine, where people voted to be a part of Russia, when the Russian military dragged people from their house and made them vote at gunpoint.
So you really want to say that your country is in the same situation, and the leadership in your country is doing the same and did the same to come to power?
Again, you avoid my questions. You attack me with points that are based on your wrong assumptions, wrong conclusions and bad reading.
All I said was that I’m against injustice and the people responsible for it. You changed that into hate. That’s debatable, but sure. I went with it. I said many Americans are partly responsible, either for doing it or for not doing anything against it. I never said all Americans are responsible. I just explained that the USA is not the same as Russia or North Korea as people are free to vote and join politics, to defend their political view without prosecution (until now at least). But the point I’m making is that the few that rose up against right wing, like Bernie Sanders (even though he’s only slightly left of the centre), their support is mediocre, nation wide, compared to the right wing politicians. Even a centre politician who became mayor of New York, Mamdani, is seen as far left by most Americans. That implicaties that those “most Americans” are right wing oriented. Which makes sense when you see the general political representation in your country, which is right or extreme right, while people are free to create a left political party or steer the democrats more to the left. But instead the left is dying out there. In a free, democratic country, where you are free to tell anyone to go fuck themselves, right? Well, not for long I recon.
I worked in Intel for 15 years. I don’t make lazy conclusions. Like I said before, I’ve seen a lot of places on this planet, seen many different perspectives. I don’t jump to conclusions because I read something on Facebook. Again, the question, how wide is your perspective, how much have you traveled, how much have you seen of the world?
Yeah, if people do not live in a free democratic country, that applies indeed.
Again, something you made up.
Hey buddy, was nice talking to ya mate, let me go fuck myself with my moral compass, let you go fuck yourself loving your amazing country, and leave it there. I don’t want to have an argument with someone who argues against words put into my mouth, who keeps avoiding my questions and who defends loving a state which is responsible for horrific acts happening right now, while also claiming not being responsible at all.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.